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  1. #21
    Geoffers
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    As mentioned the Tithe returns tend to support the idea that in the 1841 census the head of the THORNTON household has been mistakenly recorded as John, insead of George. This sort of thing happens.

    P.S. Do I still need to look at the “Plot Map?”
    It's a matter of personal choice and depends on how far you want to go with this. The maps are very detailed and help to give a better understanding of the place a family lived; they show precisely where your family lived. You can often follow that through to modern times and either work out in which house (still standing) your family lived, or its exact location if the area has been rebuilt. The map will show where the numbered plots are in relation to each other (same or opposite sides of the road, close together or far apart).

    You may prefer to put your resources into other lines of research at the moment and keep this in mind for another time (e.g. winning the lottery, inheriting the odd million, etc).

    Are you happy that the circumstantial evidence is now sufficient to resolve this part of your query? If you are, then you now need to revert to the parish records to see what additional detail can be obtained to link up Timothy and John with (hopefully) parents George and Mary.

    You mentioned in your other thread "My back ground is molecular biology, so the DNA is a comfort…not so good with the documents" - are we beginning to help build your confidence in looking for, and using documentary evidence?

  2. #22
    cgthornton1
    Guest

    Default This should put a nail in it!

    Geoffers!
    Comfortable?!?! Your help, and the help of the forum, has been instrumental in breaking down two significant walls that have plagued my cousins for years…I don’t think we could have gotten around them without the requisite help from the forum…for that, I am truly indebted! However, I must admit that my deficiency isn’t necessarily the analytical evaluation of the documents, or the development of the logical paradigms crucial to making meaningful determinations; my deficiency is in finding the essential texts. Alas, I am a complete novice at this activity, and it is only with your help that I was able to examine the vital content! Give me an autoradiogram of primary sequence derived from anti-parallel, double stranded beta-DNA any day…and I’ll tell you who your daddy be! Comfortable?!?! I would call it stunningly exhilarating! But I still feel a bit like I’m working without a net, so for the time being I’ll just keep asking questions, scurrying off to analyze documents, and cozying up to the aforementioned double helix!

    I’m sure I’ll have more questions, but in the interim you might be interested to know…

    I examined the Sowe Parish Baptismal records (1800-1837 & 1838-1876), and the marriage records of Sowe Parish (1813-1837)…these transcriptions were downloaded from:
    https://www.hunimex.com/warwick/index.html

    I analyzed them to try to identify possible parents named “John & Mary” and/or “George & Mary” of the children identified in the 1841 census, and to try to identify marriages of “John & Mary” and/or “George & Mary” in Sowe prior to the birth of the first child (i.e., Elizabeth).

    In the 1841 UK Census (HO107/1136/27, folio 6, p7) it is reported that John & Mary THORNTON have 3 children. Their ages as indicated in the census are shown below, and the possible birth years are expanded by +/-1 year around the implied birth year.

    Elizabeth (7 yrs): born 1833-1835
    John (6 yrs): born 1834-1836
    George (8 mos): born 1839-1841

    ELIZABETH:
    - There were 7 Elizabeths born in Sowe between 1833 and 1835.
    - There was only 1 “George & Mary” that had a daughter Elizabeth in this timeframe: George & Mary THORNTON (baptized Sept 15, 1833).
    - There was only 1 “John & Mary” that had a daughter Elizabeth in this timeframe: John & Mary SMITH (Sept 27, 1835).
    - Others possibilities include involving one of the appropriate names: John & Susanna Gibbs

    JOHN:
    - There were 14 Johns born in Sowe between 1834 and 1836.
    - There was only 1 “George & Mary” that had a son John in this timeframe: George & Mary THORNTON (baptized Oct 12, 1834).
    - There were NO parents named “John & Mary” that had a son John in this timeframe.
    - Others possibilities include involving one of the appropriate names: John & Anne Liggins; John & Susanna Checklin; Jonhathan & Sarah Biggs; Henry & Mary Adcock.

    GEORGE:
    - There were 5 Georges born in Sowe between 1839 and 1841.
    - There was only 1 “George & Mary” that had a son George in this timeframe: George & Mary THORNTON (baptized Nov 22, 1840).
    - There were NO parents named “John & Mary” that had a son George in this timeframe.
    - Others possibilities include involving one of the appropriate names: Daniel & Mary Budd

    MARRIAGES:
    - There were 8 marriages in Sowe between 1830 and 1834 that involved a George, a Mary, or a John.
    - There was 1 marriage of a George and Mary: George THORNTON & Mary BROADHURST on Sept 24, 1832
    - There was 1 marriage of a John and Mary: John NUTTING & Mary JARVIS on May 29, 1831

    So, I’m off to Wolverton, Buckinghamshire where William, George & John THORNTON seem to have been born, and Wormleighton, Warwickshire where William & John show up in subsequent census documents! …wish me luck!

    With my deepest respect and appreciation,
    cgthornton1

  3. #23
    Geoffers
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cgthornton1
    my deficiency is in finding the essential texts.
    The experience of forum members is quite good here - so if you are at a loss as to where to look for an answer, do ask. There may not be a record available, or it may be impractical for you to gain access at the moment - but asking is free and if you don't ask, you you'll never know. So we're always here to try and help.

    So, I’m off to Wolverton, Buckinghamshire where William, George & John THORNTON seem to have been born
    This will be the shot in the dark. We've previously mentioned the problem of the birthplace recorded as recorded in census returns and Wolverton, Bucks (abbreviation for Buckinghamshire) seems the most likely possibility.

    So good luck, and do keep us updated with how you get on.

  4. #24
    Wirral
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffers View Post

    This will be the shot in the dark.
    I'd rate this as higher than a "shot in the dark" - more like "an educated guess"! (And this has certainly been a fast education!)

  5. #25
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1

    Default Thornton family....John's side.

    My mother was a Thornton a direct descendant of John , brother of Timothy. I, too, was unsure whether John and Timothy were actual brothers but your data on this forum reinforced my findings, especially the obituary information. I don't have much to add to your results but I do know that John was stationed in St. John's , Newfoundland during the time that Timothy marries Ellen. Ellen's name remains a mystery...but I do know that some Newfoundland accents pronounce an "h" in front of any word beginning with an "a" and drop the ."h" in words beginning with an "h". Hence. The saying that Newfies drop their "h" in 'olyrood' and pick it up in 'hargentia'. ( Holyrood and Argentia) John'first two children John Alexander and Emma were born in St.John's. John was there in the British army, a corporal in the royal rifles company.

    My great grandfather was John's son William Charles, who also had a son William Charles , my grandfather.
    All three of these gents married twice just to confuse the paper trail!

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