A 'murder', an 'unfortunate accident' or ?

[AdeleE]

Hi Adele.
Thanks for answering my questions. I disccounted the listing for the Majestic as no age was listed and occupation stated clerk, but in 1911 census he certainly wasn't stated as such an employee.

US census for 1920 are very labor-intensive.

Regards
Colin

On the Majestic list I'm looking at, William Norman is a 28 year old papermaker, b. Washford, going to brother Arthur Norman in Butte.

I think some of the Butte 1920 census is at the bottom of a mineshaft.

Adele

[Colin Rowledge]

I think some of the Butte 1920 census is at the bottom of a mineshaft.

Adele

That's why I and our American B-G members are finding it so difficult.

[AdeleE]

Just checked a 1914 Calendar. November 13, 1914 was a Friday. Being a mining centre did they work Saturdays and Sundays as well due the high incidence of mining accidents?

History of the "weekend" from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekend

Adele

[Colin Rowledge]

1930 census:

William R Norman, head, marr, 46, married age 35, b. England, immig 1911, alien, cable repairer, copper mining co.
Audrey M G Norman, wife, marr, 30, married age 19, b. England, immig 1919, alien
W Arthur B Norman, son, age 9 struck out, age 7, born Montana
Charles H Norman, son, 6, born England
James L Norman, son,4 6/12, born Montana

Walkerville, Silver Bow, Montana

Adele

Hi Adele
William married Audrey M.G. Bowden Sep. q. 1919. Emigrated under her married name, presumably.

Again, an interesting item about Charles being born in England [around 1924]

[Geoffers]

William R Norman, head, marr, 46, married age 35, b. England, immig 1911, alien, cable repairer, copper mining co.
Audrey M G Norman, wife, marr, 30, married age 19, b. England, immig 1919, alien
W Arthur B Norman, son, age 9 struck out, age 7, born Montana
Charles H Norman, son, 6, born England

Looking at the GRO index, William NORMAN looks to have married Audrey BOWDEN, there is a birth registered for Charles H BOWDEN in 1923 in Newton Abbott.

A 1924 passenger list for the Saxonia, departing Southampton 19th April 1924 bound for New York includes:

Audrey NORMAN, last address in the UK 6 Norton Terrace, Paignton, aged 24, housewife; with her were William, aged 4 and Charles aged 4/12 - intended place of permanent residence for them all was USA.

He (William) arrived on the Majestic 26 Oct 1911, going to join brother Arthur Norman in Butte

Majestic is shown departing Southampton 18th October 1911

Audrey NORMAN originally emigrated on the Mauretania, departing Southampton 17th Dec 1919 for New York; a housewife aged 20, intended place of residence USA.

[Colin Rowledge]

Looking at the GRO index, William NORMAN looks to have married Audrey BOWDEN, there is a birth registered for Charles H BOWDEN in 1923 in Newton Abbott.

A 1924 passenger list for the Saxonia, departing Southampton 19th April 1924 bound for New York includes:

Audrey NORMAN, last address in the UK 6 Norton Terrace, Paignton, aged 24, housewife; with her were William, aged 4 and Charles aged 4/12 - intended place of permanent residence for them all was USA.

Audrey NORMAN originally emigrated on the Mauretania, departing Southampton 17th Dec 1919 for New York; a housewife aged 20, intended place of residence USA.

Hi Geoffers.
I wasn't able to find any of your supporting info. William was born in the US. and Charles aged 4 months was born in the UK.

Even in 1924 this would have been difficult for a lady aged 24 with 2 young kiddies.

How do you find this 'stuff'?

Cheers
Colin

[Geoffers]

How do you find this 'stuff'?

I'm nosy

GRO marriage index includes:

Sept 1919 Williton Vol 5c Page 609
NORMAN, William R - surname of spouse BOWDEN
BOWDEN, Audrey M G - surname of spouse NORMAN

GRO births index includes:

Dec 1923 Newton A Vol 5b Page 193
NORMAN, Charles H - mother's maiden name BOWDEN

Searches using basic information provided in the 1930 census brought up the ships' sailngs.

Even in 1924 this would have been difficult for a lady aged 24 with 2 young kiddies

Make the older one work his passage as a stoker (reducing costs) and you've only got one left to worry about, making life that much easier

I now await a knock at the door from the NSPCC.

[Wirral]

I now have a copy of the Death Certificate for Arthur. It is typed from the orinal handwritten Coroner's Report dated November 27,1914. The essential details are that Arthur died of a Fractured Skull and Broken Neck - result of a Mine Accident on November 13, 1914. The informant was William Norman - brother who listed address as Southern Cross. The lady from the Archives indicated that she had seen the handwritten Coroner's Report .......

Why did you suggest that Arthur was murdered when the Coroner's report said he died in a mine accident?

[Colin Rowledge]

Why did you suggest that Arthur was murdered when the Coroner's report said he died in a mine accident?

A later email from the lady in Butte, said that the Coroner had some concerns about the 'mine accident'. These were on his handwritten notes. Apparently such incidents had been quite prevalent at that specific mine site.

At the time of posting this thread, that was all I had. I am still awiting more details from her

Don't know what, if anything, came of his concerns.

[Wirral]

A later email from the lady in Butte, said that the Coroner had some concerns about the 'mine accident'. These were on his handwritten notes. Apparently such incidents had been quite prevalent at that specific mine site.

A poor safety record would not have been unusual in mines at that time. Have you looked at local newspaper reports of the time? They are often more forthright about incidents like this.