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  1. #21
    Geoffers
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    You will need a day or two in Kew to access these and then your chap may have arrived beforehand, but - If your chap arrived in England from 1836 (and some of the indexes survive back to 1826) then there may be a record kept under the Aliens Act - see this link to a TNA research guide.

    If he was Japanese and adopted a British name - he may possibly have become a christian - is there any trace of an adult baptism? An entry may note some detail about him before his conversion.

    I've tried searching TNA's catalogue for denizations and naturalisations, but without success. Some name changes are recorded in The London Gazette; but as has been mentioned, you don't need a formal procedure to change a name.

  2. #22
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    Thanks. Checked London Gazette. No luck. Afraid Kew isn't an option as I live in Canada. Apparently, he was a Japanese mariner according to family tradition. I have checked with Kew on that and if the individual was a foreigner, he didn't have to have papers.
    Good idea though. No adult baptism, at least in the parishes around St. George in the East that I have searched through Parish Chest.

  3. #23
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    Cool KEW

    I brought in a film to the Family History Center and found a "Ticket Number for Mariners" for Sam. Jon. Williams London. The ticket number is 356,238 but I don't know where to go from here. Would anyone know of a reseacher at KEW that could copy that ticket for me? To my knowledge, foreign born mariners didn't receive a ticket number so it could be one generation further back than I thought that was Japanese. With such a common name, it may not be mine but I'm anxious for a look. Any ideas please? I also found a "List of Maters and Mates". On Page 65, Samuel John Williams, Class Examine #2, Date of Certificate, 1849; Examining Board, London. No additional information. I know he died before 1851 when his wife was listed as a widow on the 1851 census. Again, any ideas would be appreciated.

  4. #24
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    At a recent family party, a relative said she was told by her future mother in law to "be careful when you marry (my cousin). Back five generations he has a Japanese uncle and the color could come out in your children." Since it was my belief that it was the fourth generation that was Japanese, I took another look at the following information:
    From the London Parish Register, St. George in the East, I found a Samuel Peter Williams, C: 27 Aug 1823, the Father's name is Samuel and the mother's name is Margaret. Their address at the time of baptism is Back Lane, St. George in the East. Samuel is a mariner. What is interesting is that under the surname, there is a notation, "Of Color". This was the only entry for Samuel and Margaret in that parish. Does anyone have access to marriage records for London or Middlesex? I would appreciate a look up for Samuel Williams and Margaret about 1820. Thank you.

  5. #25
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    I received an email from a distant relative in London. Her grandfather was a son of the elusive Samuel John Williams married to Jane Baker and she told me "He was wearing a Chinese costume to perform as Japanese at a Carnival". I'm not TOTALLY convinced as the picture I have of him does not look 100% English. If anyone has any additional ideas, I would sure like to hear them.

  6. #26
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    Angry Compilation

    Because the information is scattered through the different posts, I thought I would put up a compilation of what I know. The first point that is confusing is that there are actually three generations of Samuel John Williams. The first Samuel John is my brickwall. All I know about him is that he is a mariner and at some point before the 1841 census, he married Jane Baker. Samuel John II, married Amelia Van Kempen in 1872 and I have their family on the 1881 census. On the marriage license for Samuel John Williams (II) and Amelia Van Kempen, in 1872, Samuel says his father is Samuel John Williams, mariner, deceased. Samuel John lll married Matilda Ann Argent. .
    The 1841 Census of St. George in the East, gives: Samuel Williams age 35, Seaman, Yes to born there and Jane Williams age 30, Yes to born there (Jane was actually born in Kent, proved later)
    1841 Census also: Spencer Street, St George East
    Samuel JOHNSON 35 Ships Cook Y, Mary JOHNSON 30 Y , Mary JOHNSON 6 Y, Sarah COLLINS? 45 Y (Believe this is Jane's sister).
    1843: Samuel John Williams ll, Born: 5 Sept. 1843, to Jane Baker and Samuel John Williams, Mariner. Address: 36 Spencer St.
    1851 Census: 38 John Street, St George East
    Mary Johnson Head W 42 Needlewoman Kent Bromley
    Jane Ann Johnson Dau 9 Middx St George East
    Emily Johnson Daur 5 Middx St George East
    Jane A Williams Sister W 44 Needlewoman Kent Brompton
    Samuel Williams Nephew 7 Middx St George East
    1861 Census: Jane Williams is a servant, Born: Brompton, Kent at 133 St. George Street, St. George in the East
    1861 Census: Samuel Williams is living on his own at 4 Spencer St., UM, Age 17, Leather sellers assistant, born: Middlesex, St. George
    1871 Census: 70 Richard St., Tower Hamlets, Jane Williams, Head, Widow Age 63, born: Chatham
    Samuel Williams, son, age 27, Leather seller assistant, born: St. George in the East
    1871 Census: 63 Terling Street, St George in the East
    Mary Ann Johnson Head 63 b Kent (Brompton)
    Jane Ann Johnson Daugh 29 b St George in the East Middx
    No sign of Jane Williams or Mary Ann Johnson on the 1881 census.

  7. #27
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    Things have taken a twist. I was in contact with a granddaughter of Arthur Edward Williams, the brother of Frederick Charles Williams, my grandfather. She believes that the family was mislead. The picture of Arthur in my 100 year old photo album, is when Arthur went to a Japanese carnival of some kind and he is actually wearing a Chinese kimono. I now have contacts with descendants of five of the seven brothers and all have sort sort of a "Japanese" story. Could it all be from this picture? I have looked for a marriage for Samuel John Williams and Jane Baker all over Kent (Jane was born in Chatham) and in BMD in England without success. I would appreciate any help finding this marriage.

  8. #28
    Lizzy9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Jackie View Post
    I have looked for a marriage for Samuel John Williams and Jane Baker all over Kent (Jane was born in Chatham) and in BMD in England without success. I would appreciate any help finding this marriage.
    Is this the couple you found on the 1841 census, or are you looking for their son's marriage? Please can you say approximately when the marriage would have taken place?

  9. #29
    Lizzy9
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    Think I've worked things out and answered my own question. You are looking for a marriage between Samuel Williams and Jane Baker pre 1841 census.

    I've found a possible baptism for Jane on family search beta site.

    residence: Chatham, Kent, England
    parents: John Baker, Jane

    record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
    name: Jane Ann Baker
    gender: Female
    baptism/christening date: 17 Dec 1806
    baptism/christening place: Chatham, Kent, England
    father's name: John Baker
    mother's name: Jane

  10. #30
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    Yes. Actually, I found Samuel and Jane Williams on the 1841 census
    St. George in the East, Middlesex, England
    #7 and 8 (1841 Census)
    !Living on Spencer Street,
    !Samuel Williams, age 35, Mariner, born there.
    !Jane Williams, age 30, born there.
    Although Jane states she was "born there" on succeeding census records, she states she is born in Chatham and yes, I found that christening record for Jane with parents John Baker and Jane Denton and also Jane Denton's parents. That Kent site is great! However, I started looking in 1835 in Chatham and found no marriage anywhere in the Kent records for Samuel Williams and Jane Baker. Free BMD doesn't have very many London records and there is none of the right name there. Any help finding that marriage would be greatly appreciated as I feel it is the necessary link that I need to break this brickwall! Our family has been looking for them for over 60 years.

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