brickwall time - and it hurts!

[asherman]

Can anyone pelase help me as I feel that I am banging my head against a brickwall!

I have an ancestor (John Wilson) who moved to England from Scotland before 1861 at which time he was in the Merchant Navy. According to his marriage cert (in England) his father was James Wilson a flax dresser/draper, and John would have been born circa 1838. He named his eldest daughter Elizabeth Hunter which suggests that his mothers maiden name was Hunter. (his wifes maiden name was Pearce and the name Hunter does not appear in her family). All of the census returns just give his birthplace as Scotland.

A very helpful lady has previously checked some registers and found the marriage of a David Wilson giving his parents as James Wilson, Flax dresser and Elizabeth nee Hunter - he was married in 1864 in Kinghorn, Fife.

I have since been on Scotlands People (which I did not find easy to use compared to other sites I use) and found who I believe is the same David (born in 1842, Kirkcaldy, Fife) in the 1851 census for Dundee, Angus living with his mother Elizabeth (father not shown but mother given as being married), brother John (bn 1837 in Kirkclady, Fife), Robert bn 1839, Dundee, Ann bn 1847 Kirckaldy and James bn 1850 in Dundee.

I have also found the marriage of James Wilson to Betsy Hunter in Abbotshall, Fife in 1836, but no other details are given. However I cannot find the births for any of the children (not even David), or any of the family in the 1861 census for either Fife or Angus.

Using Ancestry I may have found Elizabeth with son James in Kinghorn in the 1871 census but no other family.

I am not even sure if i am on the right track. David marraige is the closest I have got.

I have spent £12 looking on Scotlands People and nothing to show for it. One of the searches I did was for all children born between 1836 and 1855 in Fife who's parents are called Wilson and Hunter, but it was the wrong family.

Is there any way of finding a birth/baptism for John Wilson son of James a flax dresser/draper and possibly Elizabeth Hunter circa 1837

Anne

[suemalings]

The IGI has an entry

John Wilson, Batised 31 MAR 1828 Penninghame, Wigtown, Scotland

Parents James Wilson and Elizabeth Hunter. Could this be your John?

[suemalings]

James Wilson & Elizabeth Hunter also had the following children, all baptised in

Penninghame, Wigtown, Scotland


Hanah bap 29/04/1824
Mary bap 04/11/1835
Samuel bap 06/03/1831


There is a marriage entry for a James Wilson and Elizabeth Hunter, 14/03/1819, same place. So there could have been a couple more children between 1820 and 1824

[suemalings]

Found Mary baptised 26/12/1821. She must have died as another Mary was born and baptised in 1835

[asherman]

Thanks Sue but I think this may be the wrong family. John was definitely born 1837/8 according to all the dates and ages on the census returns and his marriage and death certs.

[suemalings]

Is it possible that John Wilson and Elizabeth Hunter had another son - John born 1838?

Mary was born 1834 so there could be another son somewhere.

[JAP1]

... Is there any way of finding a birth/baptism for John Wilson son of James a flax dresser/draper and possibly Elizabeth Hunter circa 1837

Anne

Hello Anne,

The short answer is that there may not be any way.

As no doubt you are aware, Statutory Registration did not begin in Scotland until 1855.

Before that the only records are those in church registers.

The records on ScotlandsPeople are only those of the 'established' (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland. But many children were baptized in other churches (including the many breakaway Presbyterian churches) and many church registers have not survived or have not been indexed - not to mention that many children were not baptized at all.

I'm sorry not to post better news!

Good luck,

JAP

[JustJean]

If it's just the baptism record for John you'd like to find then indeed you may be out of luck. Unfortunate too that the 1841 census for the Kirkcaldy parish is one of those that has gone missing. Thankfully the family had the good sense to be in Dundee in 1851!! Now, if it's more on the family lines that you'd like to learn then you aren't done yet!!

The death for mum Betsy is easily found on SP searching with maiden name and married name. It's indexed like so:

1888 WILSON BETSY HUNTER F 73 KIRKCALDY AND ABBOTSHALL /FIFE 442/00 0143

From this you'll learn her parents names and also the name of son in law informant. From that info you'll quickly find the marriage for dau Ann in 1870 Kinghorn which confirms that her father was deceased by that time.

Still however not finding the family enumerated together in 1861 which truly makes it appear they may have missed the census. But knowing they were clearly in Kinghorn in 1870 and 1871 I searched for a marriage for David in that area and bingo.... 3 June 1864 in Kinghorn you'll find his marriage to Isabella Black and this clearly indicates that perhaps his father is still living. If so this is fantastic as it's within statutory recordkeeping. This is where I'm stuck at the moment though...not finding the death of James Wilson husband of Betsy Hunter between 1864 and 1870!! Since David's occupation at the time of marriage is "Mason" I'm strongly now thinking he is a boarder on the 1861 census....

Registration Number: 439
Registration district: Kinghorn
Civil parish: Kinghorn
County: Fife
Address: Nethergate

Name: David Willison
Age: 19
Relationship: Boarder
Where born: Linktown, Fifeshire
Occupation: Mason

Household consists of:
Margaret Wright age 39
John Wright age 1
John Connolly age 24
Peter Haldane age 21
David Willison age 19


Best wishes
Jean

[JAP1]

Hi Jean, What a joy that you have more positive news!!

Sorry Anne, that I was so negative.

Let's hope that these ARE the right people and that proof can be found of the connexion.

Looking forward to hearing more about this research,

All the very best,

JAP

[asherman]

Many thanks everyone for all of your help and thoughtfulness. I was really beginning to feel very disheartened. I had heard that the Scottish records held so much more info than the English ones that orignally I had high hopes, but then they were dashed when I realised how hard it could be to find anything. So I am really grateful to everyone.

Jean I really think you should change your name from just jean to something more dynamic - you are certaintly more than just (as in only) jean, judging from your knowledge and willingness to push me in the right direction. And you have managed to confirm that Betsy is probably Elizabeth (which I never took for granted).

I am going on my hols now but will follow everything up as soon as I can. I always intended researching the family more if posible but thought I would need more confirmation about John first, but perhaps I can do this through David.

Thanks again everyone (even JAP1) - a negative response is better than none at all, and at least it is an honest point of view.


PS any ideas where dad James could have been in the 1851 census? Can I search for him by occupation?