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  1. #1
    Nimity
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    Default BOX/COLERNE - GAY FAMILY

    I have a puzzle in my family research that someone maybe able to help solve. I am descended from the GAY family of Colerne/Box area. I have been able to track my GG grandfather, Alfonso Gay, living at Mills Platt (b. 1837) right up to the 1911 census. My G grandfather, Frederick Gay married Fanny Selina Tiley in Colerne in 1884 and had my grandfather Ernest James Gay. My problem is, by the 1901 census Fanny is living at Mills Platt on her own with 4 different children (Elsie, Hilda, Stanley and Flossie) from 1891 census. Frederick Snr, Frederick Jnr, Sarah Kate, Albert and Ernest are all missing. I assumed that they had married, moved away, maybe Fred died etc, BUT on the 1911 census Fred Snr, Albert and Ernest are back home again with Fanny at Watergates. What could have happened during this time?? I can find some reference (possibly) to Ernest being in a Blind Institute (but he wasn't blind) Fred, Albert and Kate being in industrial schools and possibly Fred Snr being in a lunatic asylum! These are searches on Ancestry but not confirmed. I have found later references for Fred jnr dying before 1911, Kate and Albert marrying, and of course Ernest marrying my grandmother Elizabeth Jane Weeks and living at Tutton Hill. Does anyone know where I could find out what happened to this family between 1891 and 1901? Cheers

  2. #2
    birdlip
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    No response Nimity! That's awful, and it's your first post too, we're all slipping down on the job!

    Just some thoughts.. if Fred senior had had some sort of a breakdown and WAS in an asylum in 1891, perhaps Fanny couldn't cope with all eight of the children at home, hence the older children appear in institutions of one sort or another. Were all these places in Wiltshire? Some records may survive, admission /discharge reports etc. It might be worth emailing the Wilts and Swindon Record Office to find out. Of course, you don't know yet if they definitely are the family members you're after, but a bit more detail may help you confirm this..or not.

    I'm not sure if that's much help, but at least it will bump your thread up into view again, and remind others you are still looking for suggestions

    regards birdlip

  3. #3
    georgiep
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    Default

    Hi Nimity
    Would the chap be in an asylum in Somerset?
    I've had a look at census, he is a carpenter 42 married.
    Perhaps he took up carpentry while in there?
    Poor chap doesn't know where he was born which means his age could be out too.
    The search years for admission would only be a couple as Flossie is 1yr in 1901.

    Birdlip has offered some good ideas as to their circumstances by 1901.
    Young Albert 12 is also in Somerset at an Ind. School.

    Perhaps Ernest had partial site?
    Maybe ask for help searching registers for St Augustine's Bristol
    1901??

    Kate is boarding in Doreset, they were certainly scattered around.
    With having family born in Lpool, I've seen lots of kiddies put into care mostly because Mum couldn't cope while Dad was at sea.

    All the best
    Georgie

  4. #4
    birdlip
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    Georgie, you're right, it's 1901 we're looking at, not 1891!

  5. #5
    Knowledgeable and helpful
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    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
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    731

    Default Roundway

    The mental institution which is probably relevant is Roundway Hospital in Devizes, Wiltshire. Wiltshire & Swindon Archives have extensive case records, and some include photographs! Digital photography is allowed but there is a £5 fee per day. PW

  6. #6
    Nimity
    Guest

    Smile

    Thank you all for your suggestions. It is a puzzle isn't it. I'm just clutching at straws as I can't find them anywhere else. They just disappeared in 1901 in that area. The Lunatic Asylum that I found a Frederick Gay, birthplace NK, is Somerset and Bath Pauper Lunatic Asylum, a Kate Gay is in Dorset, a Fred Jnr is in Bath Union Workhouse, an Albert in Somersetshire Industrial School and Ernest in St Augustine's Bristol. Why would they have been scattered around? Maybe I'm on the wrong track, Fred could have been in jail! The 1911 census has them back home again in Colerne with Fanny and Fred is 46 and a Quarryman. Would he have been back home and working after being in a lunatic asylum in 1901? Ernest is working as a labourer in 1911 and I'm sure he wasn't blind. I just can't find any other listings in the bmds. So confusing! Is this tea or something stronger?
    Cheers
    Nimity

  7. #7
    birdlip
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimity View Post
    It is a puzzle isn't it. So confusing! Is this tea or something stronger?
    Nimity
    hmm...could be strong coffee? Skinny Cappuccino with a double shot thanks...

    This is certainly a puzzle. Personally, I think Kate in Dorset is definitely your Kate (RG13/ 1979/ 32/ 22) she is 14 and very specifically states her place of birth as not even Box, but "Box Hill" Somerset, which is/was not a large village.

    The same with Ernest, he is 10, the correct age; (though he is down as Box Hill Wilts not Somerset, but I don't think that's significant). He is clearly listed as blind on the census return, so it does seem curious he was a labourer by 1911, but perhaps as Georgie said, he was partially sighted. Many people today who are legally blind, have partial sight.

    I haven't looked for the other children, but I think if they also state Box Hill or Box as their place of birth, you would have to consider them a strong possibility. One way of checking could be to see if you can find them in 1891. Is there ANOTHER Kate Gay aged abt 4, born Box Hill, Som, for example? Or an Ernest? Or a Fred etc? Check on freebmd too. I doubt you'll find another GAY family in Box Hill, with children who have not only the same names, but who are each the same age.

    Frederick senior is more difficult. I don't have a problem with the fact he may've been in an Asylum in 1901, and then back out and working as a labourer again by 1911. Back then, I think the term "Lunatic" was a catch all term that covered everything from postnatal depression to Schizophrenia and everything in between. The poor chap might just have had anxiety and depression, and could've been out again in six months. I shouldn't say "just" anxiety and depression, when it's severe it's totally debilitating, of course. The age, 42, is wrong, however that by itself wouldn't be significant, but he is listed as a carpenter, your Frederick was a quarry labourer in 1891, and a quarryman in 1911, he was not a carpenter. Perhaps he was under heavy medication, and wasn't communicating. Whoever wrote out the form didn't know where he was born, perhaps the rest was a bit of guesswork too?

  8. #8
    Nimity
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    Thanks Birdlip, Box and Colerne ARE in Wiltshire, that's why the Somerset entries have me worried. Cheers

  9. #9
    birdlip
    Guest

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    It's close to the border though. Bathford for example is only about 4 kms away, and it's in Somerset. It may be one of those places that changed as the borders altered. I don't think you should worry about it.

  10. #10
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    731

    Default Somerset/Wiltshire borders

    There hasn't been a change of borders in that area but sometimes the poor law union crossed county lines. Not sure if that is the case here. The fact that Fred was a quarry man might mean he worked in both counties as there were quarries in both Box and Bath where the workers moved between. If you're looking for BMD for that region in Somerset, use both freebmd AND UKBMD as all of Bath registers have been indexed and these include mother's maiden names back to 1837. They don't however, give a quarter, only the year of the event. We're working on the Wiltshire records but haven't got to the more recent ones yet. PW

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