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  1. #11

    Default Many thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Hello bassett14,

    Welcome to British-Genealogy.

    Unfortunately Blue Daisy is no longer a member of the forum as denoted by the 'guest' under the username.

    The image of the parish register entry for Henry's baptism is on Ancestry, so therefore unlikely to be on FMP as well. If you forgot to download a copy, your local library might offer free access to Ancestry.
    To confirm the entry details, it says baptised 25 December 1789, St James', Bristol, Henry, son of William and Sarah Stratton.

    You probably already have these but other baptisms I found (on Ancestry) all at St James' Bristol:
    Edward Stretton 1788. I presume he's the one buried 2 February 1789. (image 293 of 410 in the same register as his baptism.)
    Edward Stretton 1792. I have allegedly checked for burials 1792-1796 inclusive without success.
    Sarah Stretton 1793.
    Eliza Stretton 1795, indexed as Eliz.
    Edward Stretton 1797
    Mary Stretton 1799.
    The Edward 1797 is the only one without an image available on Ancestry.

    Pam
    Hi Pam
    Thanks so much for the info you provided.

    I'm always surprised about the vagueness of birth dates as you go back in time. Henry Stretton all through his life in the censuses says he was born in 1790, but it seems from your info he was born then just before Christmas the year before. If he has a 'flexible birth date; then I wonder if his wife Elizabeth Clear perhaps also has a flexible birth date? I've not been able to find her in Bristol. If the year of baptism/birth dates are variable maybe it will mean I have a quandery, is she Elizabeth Clear of Norfolk or the Elizabeth Clear from West Moseley Surrey? as those are the only Two EC's i can find...(and how would Henry have met someone from a distance from Bristol) or, are there records missing and not uploaded to FMP or Ancestry for Elizabeth Clear in the Bristol area? Such are the twists and turns of genealogical research - variable birth years!! I don't think I will find it easy either to work out William's baptism as there are at least two Stretton families living in or near Bristol mid-1700s and William is a popular name around this time.

    I hope you don't mind my asking, but when you say you've 'allegedly' checked for burials - have you used the word 'allegedly' as it was a long time back and you can't remember and it's just in your personal notes or something else?

    It's so sad William and Sarah lost children so young, but I guess it wasn't uncommon. I had found out about the very short life of Edward Stretton 1, and knew they had another son Edward 2, but I didn't know that Edward 2 had also died and they must have had another child Edward Stretton 3, so that's very interesting to know.

    Thanks again for getting back to me
    Julie Fox

  2. #12
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    Hi Julie,

    Don't malign poor Henry. He wasn't being in the least vague about his birth year.
    Most census in the UK are taken end of March/beginning of April, and the question asked is 'how old are you?' So someone born 1 December 1790 will say 61, though when the details are transferred to an index the birth year show as 1790, because 1851 minus 61 equals 1790.
    Similarly, someone born 1 March 1790 will also be 61 on census days in 1851, and their year of birth will be shown as 1790 in the transcription index.
    The people who are 'vague' are those who are 20 in one census, 35 in another, and 43 in a third! (They're the ones who usually give three different birthplaces as well!!!)

    Regarding the origins of Elizabeth Clear, Henry's wife, remember that they married in London so if Elizabeth was from either Norfolk or Surrey, then she wasn't the only one who travelled.
    Have you searched Surrey and Norfolk records for a marriage for an Elizabeth Clear to eliminate one or the other from query?

    Where have you looked for baptisms for Elizabeth? e.g. have you done a county-by-county search, especially in those counties where Clear is a common name? Remember you need to look later than a birth year for a baptism. (One of my something-times greatgrandfathers was baptised a couple of months before he married.)
    Keep an open mind about variant spellings such as Cleer, Cleere, Cleare, or even Clare.

    The 'allegedly checked' for burials means that I've looked at the burials pages contained in the same book as the baptisms (all baptisms for one year, followed by all burials for same year; pattern repeated for following years), but could have missed the entry. (You do go cross-eyed after a while!)

    I wondered why Henry died in Boston but realise that he must have been visiting son Henry in Eastville. Incidentally, you've linked the death of Henry senior to the probate of Henry junior.
    Henry junior might have baptised, married, or buried some of the ancestors of a friend of mine as the ancestors lived in Eastville at one time. Small world, isn't it?

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  3. #13

    Default Henry Stretton

    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Downes View Post
    Hi Julie,

    Don't malign poor Henry. He wasn't being in the least vague about his birth year.
    Most census in the UK are taken end of March/beginning of April, and the question asked is 'how old are you?' So someone born 1 December 1790 will say 61, though when the details are transferred to an index the birth year show as 1790, because 1851 minus 61 equals 1790.
    Similarly, someone born 1 March 1790 will also be 61 on census days in 1851, and their year of birth will be shown as 1790 in the transcription index.
    The people who are 'vague' are those who are 20 in one census, 35 in another, and 43 in a third! (They're the ones who usually give three different birthplaces as well!!!)

    Regarding the origins of Elizabeth Clear, Henry's wife, remember that they married in London so if Elizabeth was from either Norfolk or Surrey, then she wasn't the only one who travelled.
    Have you searched Surrey and Norfolk records for a marriage for an Elizabeth Clear to eliminate one or the other from query?

    Where have you looked for baptisms for Elizabeth? e.g. have you done a county-by-county search, especially in those counties where Clear is a common name? Remember you need to look later than a birth year for a baptism. (One of my something-times greatgrandfathers was baptised a couple of months before he married.)
    Keep an open mind about variant spellings such as Cleer, Cleere, Cleare, or even Clare.

    The 'allegedly checked' for burials means that I've looked at the burials pages contained in the same book as the baptisms (all baptisms for one year, followed by all burials for same year; pattern repeated for following years), but could have missed the entry. (You do go cross-eyed after a while!)

    I wondered why Henry died in Boston but realise that he must have been visiting son Henry in Eastville. Incidentally, you've linked the death of Henry senior to the probate of Henry junior.
    Henry junior might have baptised, married, or buried some of the ancestors of a friend of mine as the ancestors lived in Eastville at one time. Small world, isn't it?

    Pam
    Thanks for explaining about birth dates and censuses. I did wonder as Henry seems interesting character, when it came to the marriage of one of his sons Frederick, he put as his address as what turned out to be a pub in a select part of London! (I just came across that info by chance on a web search). I've also found on another strand of my ancestry relative who put she was 60 in the 1901 census but in order to qualify for an old age pension I presume put in 1911 she was 82!

    Re Henry's wife Elizabeth, I've just made some searches under 1790 +/- 5 years Elizabeth Clear and tried Bristol, and then went on to leaving the search location blank, but adding England on both Ancestry and FMP. There are a few Elizabeth Clears born in 1792, but their location isn't anywhere near Bristol, and I think it more likely she's not going to have been recorded as being born in 1792, more likely 1789, 1790 or just possibly 1791. I'm not sure how you do a search county by county? Would you be able to give some pointers? Also do you know how you find where a surname is more prevalent? (in order to guide you where to put they lived at/born at in the search.

    It's a great tip you suggest re checking if Norfolk Elizabeth Clear married someone else and that's going to be my next little project for today I think. Thank you.

    Re not putting the right probate to the right Henry - can you tell me which forum/platform that's on so I can go and correct it. I did look on FMP and Ancestry and so far I've not been able to find it.... and yes that's amazing my relative probably said the offices of the church over your friend's relatives. Like you say, small world even in genealogy.

    Thanks so much for your help

    Julie
    Bassett14

  4. #14
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    The easiest way to check how common a name is in a particular area is to look at a census.
    In your case you need to know about people born in the late 1700-early 1800's, so in the 1851 census search for Clear, born 1800 +/- 20 years, i.e. covers 1780-1820. (On Ancestry you can only search +/- 10 years so you'd have to do 1790 +/- and then 1810+/-.)
    There's about 170 names for Clear, so it won't take long to make a list of the birth counties. I would concentrate on males only, because probably most of the females would be married and therefore would not be Clear by birth.
    If you alter your search on FMP to include variant spellings then you get over 31,000 entries but you can whittle that down to a more manageable number fairly easily.
    e.g. in 1851 you find 20 Clears born in Lincolnshire, 18 in Cambridgeshire, 15 in Essex, 9 in Cornwall, with lesser numbers in other counties, then alter your search to Clear plus variant spellings, born 1800 +/- 20 years in Lincolnshire and check out the variant spellings. Most will probably be for Clark which I think you will relatively safe in dismissing but I've seen Claar, and Clare. (All worth noting for when you want to search other indexes, because remember back in those days the vicars who completed the parish registers wrote what they heard - or thought they heard - and spelt a name how they thought it should be spelt. Which was not necessarily how the previous vicar had spelt the name. )
    Do check all the counties for which you have a Clear spelling for variants.

    As well as the birth counties you might want to list where the the people where living in 1851. Remember Elizabeth married in London so she might have moved there with her parents as a child, and her siblings would also have moved and are also probably living in London.

    Then it's a case of doing the county-by-county check.
    e.g. according to the 1851 census Zebedee Clear was born 1788 in Chichester. Can you find his baptism online? If you can see the parish registers either go back and forward for, say 10 years, either side and look for other members of his family or else note his parents and then search using their names.
    If there's only transcriptions online, then again you can still search using his parents names to find any sibings for him. See FMP and Ancestry (search the datasets using 'Sussex' as a keyword), FamilySearch, FreeREG.
    Yes, it can be a long and laborious process, but it's the only way to ensure that you've checked as many resources as you can in your search for Mary. The alternative is to say 'could be either' and leave her as a brickwall. (I've got a Mary Wright marrying a William Sharp who dies before 1851 so all I know about him is that he was born in Lincolnshire. I've probably got a choice of twenty.)

    Re the probate, go to https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar
    Make sure you select the 1858-1996 tab.
    Enter Stretton and 1890.
    Copies of wills can be ordered for £1.50 though I have a feeling that a lot of wills are online. Probably on FamilySearch, but you might have to work your way through pages for a year to find them.
    Henry senior doesn't appear to have left a will.

    Note that names, places, and all numbers except for the number of Clears and variants in the 1851 census are imaginary, and used as examples only.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  5. #15

    Default

    Thanks Pam for your replies, all very helpful. I've not been doing much genealogy for the last couple of days so sorry for the delay, but really appreciate the information you've shared how to proceed. By the way, are you able to tell me which forum/ genealogy platform I made the attribution to the wrong Henry to? I had a quick look on FMP and Ancestry and haven't found it so far.

  6. #16

    Default

    reply 2
    By the way, I have gone back onto Ancestry via my local library (thanks for suggestion) and I still can't find Henry's baptism. It's great you found it but I'd love to see it for myself too. I put Stratton, and father William, and 1789 and still it didn't show up a result in Bristol. Is there anything else in particular I should do on my Ancestry search to find this baptism record for Henry? I can only find one with Mother named Sophie but Henry's mother was called Sarah (based on witness on his marriage registration - she signed along with William)

  7. #17

    Default

    oops not Sophie but Sophia

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassett14 View Post
    Thanks Pam for your replies, all very helpful. I've not been doing much genealogy for the last couple of days so sorry for the delay, but really appreciate the information you've shared how to proceed. By the way, are you able to tell me which forum/ genealogy platform I made the attribution to the wrong Henry to? I had a quick look on FMP and Ancestry and haven't found it so far.
    You attached Henry junior's probate record to Henry senior's entry on your family tree on Ancestry.
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassett14 View Post
    reply 2
    By the way, I have gone back onto Ancestry via my local library (thanks for suggestion) and I still can't find Henry's baptism. It's great you found it but I'd love to see it for myself too. I put Stratton, and father William, and 1789 and still it didn't show up a result in Bristol. Is there anything else in particular I should do on my Ancestry search to find this baptism record for Henry? I can only find one with Mother named Sophie but Henry's mother was called Sarah (based on witness on his marriage registration - she signed along with William)
    I've just re-searched it the lazy way.
    On Ancestry's home page, typed in Henry Stratton, placed lived Bristol and then selected Bristol Gloucestershire from the dropdown options, and 1789.
    Should be the second result. Click on 'view'.

    Otherwise it's in the dataset Bristol, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  10. #20

    Default

    Hi Pam,

    Thanks for replies. I've done the search on Ancestry (using local library's access) from the home page just as you did and it returns nothing. When I put Henry Stratton b. 1789, Bristol, England, and Father William I'm mystified why I can't find his baptism. I then tried regular search, Henry Stratton, Bristol, England 1789, Father William Stratton, Mother Sarah Stretton, pressed for Bristol Baptisms and got parents Thomas and Harriet, and another Henry Stretton son of a different couple in early 1800s (not 1789) and nothing else. I can't understand what I'm doing wrong. I amended Henry senior's date of death as I used to be unsure if there was one or two Henry's and used to get confused between date of death 1878 and 1890, when I did that I tried to disassociate Henry Junior's probate record from his father's. I've not done any adjustments yet to Henry junior but as I've only got library access its slightly more complicated altering things than when you have your own membership and can add things direct from searches to an ancestor on your tree.

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