John Baker born 1869 at Egginton

[Antonybaker]

Does anyone have any information about John Baker born 1869 in Egginton, who married Emily Lownds and lived as pub Landlord in Kniveton, Derbyshire.
Mother shown as Emily Baker - no father shown on birth certificate - but a Charles Baker (Father) shown on wedding certificate.

John Baker brought up in John Hurd's family in Kniveton - at 12 he is shown as 'Nephew' to John and Mary Hurd. Any info on the Hurds?

Would appreciate any help. Regards, Tony

[janbooth]

Looks as if he is in Hognaston in the 1871 census as a Nurse Child - poor little chap.

RG10/3603, folio 16, page 6
Main Street

Benjamin TOMLINSON Head Mar 65 Ag Lab Derbyshire Brassington
Elizebeth do Wife Mar 67 do Hognaston
Joseph do Grandson 9 Scholar do do
John BAKER Nurse Child 2 do Eggington

Janet

[Antonybaker]

Many thanks - would 'nurse child' indicate adoption; a wet nurse needed; no mother or father? or what? Regards, Tony

[pottoka]

A "nurse child" was a young child placed with another family who were paid to look after it. Circumstances would differ: it would be a child which needed minding for some reason, but it wouldn't lead to adoption.

[janbooth]

I don't know if this will be relevant to your Emily BAKER, but there is a marriage registration in the June qtr 1863 at Derby reg district, vol 7b, page 64 of a Charles BAKER and one of the other names on the page is that of an Emily BIRCH. The other two names are Robert BROWN & Kate BRANEY and I these two seem to be together in the 1871 census of St Werburgh, Derby, so it looks as if Charles BAKER definitely married Emily BIRCH - perhaps worth further investigation??

Janet

[Mrs B]

Hi Tony

Picked your query up by chance! I am descended from John Hurd's brother, Robert, who was my great grandfather - and I have done quite a bit of reasearch into the Hurd family of Kniveton. John Hurd married Mary Blant in 1856 but they had no children of their own. I am certain John Baker was not John Hurd's nephew; he could have been Mary's nephew, but I have been unable to trace her family (she was bn ca 1822 in Church Gresley or Linton).

John Baker married Emily Lownds in 1890 and you have no doubt followed him through the censuses. They were living with Mary Hurd in Kniveton in 1891 - she was widowed by then - and they named one of their sons John Hurd Baker.

The Red Lion still exists and has some interesting old photographs on its walls including one taken when Joshua Hodgkinson was landlord (1890s) - he's standing with his family on the doorstep. There are a lot of Hurds buried in the churchyard too.

You might find the Wirksworth parish records website useful - www.wirksworth.org.uk - it's worth a punt, particularly Ince's pedigrees.

Sue

[Antonybaker]

Many thanks, Sue - this is really useful - is it possible Mary Blant had been married before and her maiden name was Birch? We think John Baker's mother may have been an Emily Birch which would make her a possible sister to Mary Blant.

We have looked on the Wirksworth site a number of times - do you have a Hurd family tree showing John and Robert?

We're going to go to the records office in Matlock again so we can look in Church Gresley and Linton for Mary.

Again many thanks for your help, regards, Tony

[Mrs B]

Hello Tony - when John Hurd married Mary Blant in 1856 he was 40 and she was 35, so I think it is quite possible that either or both had been married before. I had a quick look in the IGI and found a Samuel Blant/Mary Baker marriage 25.2.1843 in Church Broughton and apparently Mary's father was a John Baker......could be a red herring, but I am now intrigued! I shall get a copy of the John Hurd/Mary Blant marriage certificate and see if that throws up any clues...and let you know! If Mary Blant was the former Mary Baker, then John Baker could well have been her nephew...a brother's (Charles?)child? It is possible as children were often named after grandparents.

Another possibility, given that there is no father's name on John Baker's birth certificate, is that he was illegitimate (sorry!). I would recommend checking the parish baptism register to see whether that gives any information not shown on the formal certificate - it often does in my experience.

Incidentally, John and Mary Hurd were living in Hognaston in 1861 and 1871, so may well have known the Tomlinsons and little John Baker anyway.

I do have a Hurd family tree on a spreadsheet - it's not detailed though. I don't particularly want to post it on this site but would be happy to send it to you - I just need to figure out how to do it (I'm technically incompetent..)
Be patient and I'll get back to you!

Regards Sue

[Mrs B]

Tony

Got the John Hurd/Mary Blant marriage certificate this morning. Details are:

Date: 2.10.1856
Place: Agard Street Chapel (Baptist), Derby
Groom: John Hurd, 35 (he was actually 40!), butcher, living Friar Gate, Derby, father John Hurd, farmer
Bride: Mary Blant, 35, widow, domestic servant, living Friar Gate, Derby, father John Baker, farm labourer
Witnesses: Samuel Swindell, Elizabeth Swindell.

So John Baker must have been the former Mary Baker's nephew. Mary claimed in the 1861, 1871 and 1881 census that she was born in Linton, Derbyshire, but in 1891 (after John's death) she claimed it was Church Gresley. The IGI records a Mary Baker chr 8.9.1822 Church Gresley, daughter of John Baker and Anne, with a brother William Baker chr 18.7.1824 - but there is no mention of a Charles (the IGI record is probably not complete). I also found a John Baker / Anne Wyatt marriage in Church Gresley 28.5.1822 - a little late, perhaps. You may need to check the parish registers when you go to Matlock.

I am sending you a private message about the Hurd family.

Regards Sue

[madalice1952]

Hello Tony
My grandfather was John Hurd baker, son of John and Emily Baker of The Red Lion Kniveton. So we are related??
Regards, Alison (nee Baker)