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  1. #11
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    Hello Barbara,
    Many thanks for your help. I will give the liverpool library a go and see what they offer. I am trying to track down a lost line of my GGgrandfather's first marriage to see if there are any living descendants. obviously poor Harry will not have any descendants but I was saddened to see that he had died in an accident only 4 days after turning 19 and only six days after losing his mother possibly during an operation. I guess the family has me in it's web and I really would like to know the circumatances of his death so he can be remembered. I was sure that the mother and son dying only 6 days apart would be the result of a disease they had both contracted like consumption or cholera etc.
    I will let you know how I go with the library.
    Kind regards
    Narelle

  2. #12
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    Hello Jack,
    From the death certs and the Southern Cemetery burial register both Lottie and Harry lived at 429 Kingsway Didsbury Manchester. I have had a look at the house that is currently standing there on google maps and it looks like it could have been there in the 1920's but I am not up on the architecture of the UK so it could be a newer structure. The burial register stated Harry's occupation as "sailor" but the death cert stated "cotton mill hand" so maybe he did a bit of both.

    If I could get hold of a Manchester newspaper online I would be very happy but it seems that it will not be that easy. The Mersey Times is online but doesn't cover 1929 yet.

    As far as contacting the registrar at the Southern Cemetery I have not done so as I got all my information through the Manchester council site. Could you tell me how to contact them?
    Kindest regards Narelle

  3. #13
    Sadly Passed away - Rest in Peace Nicolina's Avatar
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    I've found Lottie on the 1911 Census (RG14PN23636 RG78PN1376 RD463 SD3 ED14 SN193). FMP has her transcribed as CROMPTON. She is a visitor at 68 Lacy Street, Stretford with the VALENTINE family, together with two children, Ivy, born Openshaw, about 1908 and Harry, born Gorton, about 1910 and she'd been married for 4 years. No husband with her but she is listed as married (not a widow)

  4. #14
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    Southern Cemetery

    Hello

    Your ancestors are buried in Plot allocated L in the non conformist section ( e mail me I can send you site plan).

    The first in the grave is Lottie, followed by Harry , then your gt grandfather Earl.

    Most plots are family owned so there is usually a connection with the persons in the plot.

    Kingsway Didsbury is the main route into Manchester form the south....also k/a A34. the properties that come up on maps.google.co.uk for the address are Local Authority housing ( built by Manchester Corporation, however some have since been sold and are in private hands)

    An e mail to the offices would probably gain you the information you need this e mail address is for 4 other Cemeteries as well as Southern ops.cemeteries@manchester.gov.uk

    West Derby is in Liverpool and is probably 3/4 miles from the docks, newpapers, liverpooldailypost.co.uk


    geneius

  5. #15
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    Hi Nicolina,
    Many thanks for this information. From this information I have since found that Lottie's children were Ivy, Harry and Frederick who was born in 1911 after the census that year. I have yet to make any family connection to the Valentine family so have not unravelled that one yet. It seems that Lottie and her husband John Edward's CRAMPTON married around 1907/08 but I cannot find a marriage for them yet. JE Crampton was also married to an Emily Darwell in 1901 and a Leah Ashmole in 1904. I have found their marriages. It seems that when Lottie died in 1929 J E Crampton was the informant and present at her death. The cert stated he was the widower of the deceased. How doubly tragic for JE to lose his wife and son in a 6 day period. It is possible that they were de facto husband and wife and I have not found any evidence of them living in the same house.
    Kind regards Narelle

  6. #16
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    Hi Geneius,
    Many thanks for the offer of the site plan. I have sent you an email. I will also try Liverpool papers and the cemetery to see if they can help me out.
    Kind regards Narelle

  7. #17
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
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    Default Lottie crampton

    Hi, I realise that this post is about 6 years old now but I have just found it on google when researching lottie crampton! I am a decendant of the valentine family and have been trying to figure out the riddle of lottie. I have been doing some research and have some info on her in the form of census docs etc. on the census I have it lists lottie as a visitor but Harry and ivy as grandson and daughter. I wondered if the valentines and the cramptons were actually related? My nana Bessie fletcher who was the valentines step sister, used to refer to her 'cousins' lottie and ivy. I'm really confused and she is no longer here to ask. Really sad reading about Harry and lottie dying within days of each other anyway hope someone is out there on this thread x katy

  8. #18
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    NAME: Lottie Augustus
    MOTHER: Mary Augustus
    FATHER: Earl Maurice Augustus
    BIRTH: 26 Sep 1886
    BAPTISM: 2 Feb 1887 - Hulme, Holy Trinity, Lancashire

    Your connection maybe:

    1) Earl Maurice AUGUSTS 2nd wife was a Mary Ann JOHNSTON(E) married b 1882 Scotland
    Earl Maurice Augustus / Mary Ann JOHNSTONE
    Registration Year: 1886
    Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
    Registration district: Chorlton

    2) Joseph FLETCHER married widow Margaret E VALENTINE q1 1909

    Her first marriage was to James VALENTINE 1897 Margaret E JOHNSTONE in 1897

  9. #19
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    Hi Geneius, thank you so much for that info, it has really helped me. Turns out that Lottie is my 1st cousin 2x removed, and so that would make sense that my Nana said it was her cousin. I think they made a mistake on the census as it doesn't make any sense. I was thinking that there was a family secret where Lottie was actually my Nana's sister. Had actually become quite obsessed with finding out the truth! If only they realised the trouble it would cause 100 years later filling the form out wrong! Thanks so much

  10. #20
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    My pleasure, oddly when you start pokong around the family it is surprising what you find. Still haven't found Mr CRAMPTON, did wonder if he was in the forces, in which case the marriage will be on seperate GRO records. These are on FMP

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