Normans in Scotland

[lgourlay36]

Hi
Ive just recently started tracing my Gourlay roots. I have traced back only as far as the birth of my great great great grandfather William Gourlay born in 1789 in Glasgow, son of James Gourlay and Elizabeth (Wallace)...but im still digging. Have found this search highly addictive and have thrown up a few shocks (i.e my paternal grandfather was illegitimate - and my dad didnt know that!).

If anyone has found any connections to William or to James and Elizabeth I would be grateful to hear from them as it would help my search enormously.

Lynne

[CRIPES]

Hi Lynne,

Welcome to the highly addictive, enjoyable, fun, & exciting (somethimes very very annoying, frustrating, expensive, demoralizing..etc etc etc) world of genealoghy...lol. :-)


Well, the Gourlay, Gourley, Gourlie, Gournay, Gournai, name is a very interesting one. And dates back to the time of William the Conqueror & beyond. Plus there are plenty of interesting stories linked to the name.

It can be a very frutsrating name, as the Gourlays sometimes tended to use the same name over and over again within the same generations.. This can really confuss things and make tracing certain folks a real headache. Especially when the same family sometimes has more than 1 child with the very same name!!.

Anyway..don't want to put you off....lol.

I just did a quick search for Jame & Elizabeth and found this which might be of interest to you.

Now, there does appear to be 2 dates given for the marriage.

The 9th May appears to be the most common date showing...but don't take it for granted that either are right...until you know for sure. But it does give you a starting point. Same for the children.

Plus there is always the possiblilty of more than 1 marriage. Worth keeping in mind.
And folks with the same names marrying in the same place, at the same time!.


James Gourlie m.Elizabeth Wallace, 16 MAY 1783 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
James Gourlie m.Elizabeth Wallace, 09 MAY 1783 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland


James Gourlie, c.1758, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland.
Elizabeth Wallace c.1762, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland,(father, John Wallace?)

Children:

Unknown, 31 DEC 1783 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
David, 03 AUG 1785 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
William, 09 APR 1787 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
John, 22 MAR 1789 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Aklexander, 14 JAN 1791 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Something to be going on with.

Regards
Koczar

[lgourlay36]

Aaaaahhhh the dreaded spelling of Gourlie which I have found crop up before and assumed a spelling mistake.

This info is perfect...it matches the birth date I had for James' son William exactly...although I didnt know about the other siblings but had suspected there had to be more.

P.s its your fault im researching my roots.....you gave me some great info on the Scotster website several weeks ago....thank you so much.
P.s any luck connecting your wife Linda directly to yourself yet?

Am about to give my dad a shock though....found out his father was illegitimate and that the grandfather he thought he had is actually not related oh the shame! he he

Will keep in touch and hopefully at some time in the future we will all be able to pull our resources and come up the the biggest family tree ever put down on paper. Wouldnt that be superb!

Thank you again
Lynne

[CRIPES]

HI Lynne!,

LOL!....yes I remember. So you decided to give genealogy ago?...well good for you. Hope you have alot of fun & great success.

I know for me it has been a real eye opener. You always believed your just an average Joe...then you find out your related to Royalty..and have a Witch in the family...lol. It's Just Crazy!.

I must admit I have negelected my tree of late as I ahve benn watching the Tour De France. I'm a BIG cycling fan, and there is nothing like the specticle of the Tour.

I saw the Tour when a couple of the stages were held here in the UK in 1994.
Stages 4 & 5. I had been watching it for as long as it had been on tv, and for it to come to the UK was something I wasn't gonna miss.!

What was great was stage 5 was held in Portsmouth!.. I was living in Portsmouth at the time. So I took the day of work to see the tour. Even if they wouldn't let me take the day off, I still would have gone..I was NOT gonna miss it.!

I spent the evening before the stage in Southsea watching the tour being built and the teams arrive. Getting glimps of my favourite riders etc. Was just unreal.!

Then the next day got my place by the start, finish line for the stage. Took snaps of the riders & celebs. I was so excited!. I just couldn't believe the Tour was in my home town!.

WAS FANTASTIC!!!!... :-)

The Tour is a sporting event like no other. Nothing comes close!.


Anyway...sorry to be going on....lol. But I do love the Tour. I hope maybe one day I can afford to to Paris and see the Finnish one day, but I doubt it.
Now with this arthritis live isn't what is used to be. I so miss ridiing my bike.

Anyway....musn't burden you with my probs.. Hope you have fun, it is a most interesting hobby.

Regards
Paul

[lgourlay36]

Hi Paul
Thanks for your great advice. I, like you, dont have much time to do the research...I work full time as well as run a bookkeeping business most nights and the weekend...but I often find myself doing research into my roots when I should be working. I have found out loads and found new branches to the family I didnt know existed. Its completely addictive.

Am considering setting up a web page with what ive found already. Will let you know how I get on.

Lynne

[Orzula]

Sorry to butt in but WOW....what a thing to have in your family history!

I loved the pictures....jeese that tomb was made about 300 years ago (might be wrong 'cos my maths isn't very good) and it's survived the Scotish weather! WOW again!....what a heritage you have

[CRIPES]

Thanks Orzula for your kind comments.

Im sure you yourself maybe related to the same people at somepoint.

The Gourlay name dates back to the time of William the Conqeror. In fact, Gerald de Gourlay married Judith de Warenne, daughter of William de Warenne. William was one of the wealthest people in the UK. He was William the Conquerors right hand man, and I beleive was married the William t C's wife before he was. Making Edith the daughter of William t C's wife..though not his.

Willliam de Warenne was a BIG name back then. He build & owned many Castles..in cluding the famos Lewes Castle in West Sussex. I believe he fought at the Battle of Hastings.

William was also related to WtCs. I think via William great uncle..or great grandfather...as was Gerald de Gourlay. The links coem via William grandfather, Richard Duke of Normandie.

William de Warenne as killed during one of the battles of the Revolt of 1088 by some of the barons opposed to King William Rufus II ruling ( Rufus was William the C's son and heir).

He could of been slain by my own past relation, Sir Peter Gunter (Gaunt d'Or).
He was a Knight nown as "The Knight of The Golden Glove", and fought in the 1088 Revolt on the side of the barons lead by Bernard de Neufmarche.(Newmarche) against Rufus. I believe also was related to William the C via Williams great grandfather.

Sir Peter ended up living in Wales after they had Conquered it for Rufus.
The family seat was known as Gunterstone, now called Tregunter. They living there for 600 years.

His ancestors brought lands in what is now Kensington & Cheslea in London.
The streets in the area now have names in honour of the Gunter family.
Tregunter Road in London has some of the most expensive properties in the UK. We are talking millions on pounds!. Even Madonna brought a property there.

I have recently found out that some of the Gunters lived in West Sussuex...not far from where I used to live. They owned land in at a place called Racton. There is a church there which has many items relating & dedicated to the Gunter family inside. Including a set of Knights armour worn by Sir George Gunter who lands it was.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/rep...x?compid=43540

https://sussexchurchez.blogspot.com/2...er-racton.html

Sir George was involded in helping King Charles escape England after the Battle of Worchester. Charles stayed with Gunters during his escape and Sir George got him the boat in which he fleed across the channel to France in.


The Gunters while in Wales married into many noble families. Including thos e which related to our present Queen. The Vaughns, Spencers, and many more.

After 600 years in Wales they moved out...some came to Berkshire, while others went to new lands in the US in the mid late 1600's.

Those in the US where very succesful, and many places in the US are named after the Gunter family. They even had their own Cavalry Unit in the US Civil war.
Those in the UK became folks of standing in many places...many becoming Mayors.

Plus there is the story of Ann Gunter....she was a supposed Witch!!.
There has been a book written about the story of how Ann become embroiled in a tale of witchcraft.

https://www.readingbooks.info/The%20B...e%20Gunter.htm

https://www.historyinreview.org/gunter.html

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1...esult&resnum=2

A most interesting family..as are the Gourlays. I believe these family are related are sometime around William the Conqueor. I know it's there..its just pinning it down as both families share the same families related to both families.

Regards
Paul

[CRIPES]

Oh forgot..the tomb of Ingelramus de Gourlay would be about 775 years old.
I belive he died around 1225..maybe a little later. Its certainly over 700 years old for sure.

The script on the top relates to an ancestor. Oliver Gourlay & his family.
The end script relates to Ingelramus himself, accompaining the soon to be King William in 1174.

[Orzula]

Wow Paul thanks for the interesting history of your family. So the tomb is about 700 years old. I'm sorry but I don't think I'm lucky enough to find anything like that in my family!

You must have spent years researching...if I had that sort of history in my family I'm afraid I wouldn't get anything done!

I am beginning to find out a few strange things about my family but won't post them here as they relate back to the Czech Republic and possible Poland....

I'm afraid I'm going to be keeping an eye on your research (if you don't mind, that is) because I think it's fascinating....

Thanks for sharing

[CRIPES]

Thank you Orzula..your to kind.

I have not been researching long..infact only about a year.
Finding links back as far as I have came fairly easy.
Once you have a name in the family which has Royal or connections to anyone of note....there tends to be alot of info out there that has been researched & collected already. Once you can connect to that info...then going back intime is made easier.

I truely knew nothing about my family past. I never meet any of my grandparents, on either side. I didn't even know their names!. Or even seen picture of them. I didn't even know where my own parents were born!!.

My parents divorced when I was 5-6 years old. I never got to know my mother that well. They have both pasted away. My father in 86 & mother in 98.
Most of my aunts & uncle have also pasted away. So I had very little to start with.

But I got a lucky tip via my mothers half sister. She mentioned my grandmother had mentioned the name "Gunter". But she didn't know who she was refering to.

I have since found out my great grandmother on my mothers side's name was Minnie Gunter.

Once I found out her name..I got lucky again as I found 2 extensive family tree website's which contained Minnie's family.

These got me back as far as 1630. Then I got a reply from an enquiry made to a possible family link. This person then gave me the next part of the line back from 1630..to 1035. I then contacted a woman in the USA who is a decendent of the same 1630 Gunter family as I was. This then gave me the link to the USA Gunter side of the family. The Gunter family line in the US has already been very well documented...with a couple of books being written about the families US history.

This women also gave me family connections from 1035 back as far as Julius Caesar & Cleopatra!!!.
She has been researching the family for many years..as many as 30+.
She also runs a DNA testing company. She has DNA tests backing up her Gunter research.

As for the Gourlay name..this is my partners family name. I have been researching her family tree also. Which....so happens to link to my Gunter name.
This links come via William the Conquerors family.

The thing is....Wiliam the Conqueror was such along time ago...many familes today can link to him and his relations. Reason being, after the Conquest of 1066, the normans came flooding across the channel looking for new lands. And so..mixing with the locals, the Anglo Saxons. And so many families today can trace themselfs back to William the C...So it's not rare as such...but how closely related is where the interest lies.

Luckerly the Gunter's & Gourlays are very closely related to WtC. As both appear to be of Norman origin before the Conquest. The Gournai, and Gaunt nobles of Normandie.

Im sure when you get really stuck in..you will find links to the families of those times....maybe even to mine!

I got lucky in my research..finding out so much so quickly..I could never of imagined being linked to such families.

It was however...a very long time ago. So to be honest..it is most interesting....but the real treasures is finding folks you are related to today that you never knew about...especially when you make contact..it's sureal.

Best of Luck in your own research...Im sure yours will be just as interesting once you get going...and whats great..you'll know you are apart of the same history of the familes and people you will read about...like Ann Gunter..the supposed Witch.

Regards
Koczar ( Paul)