Lay preacher?

[flounder]

I spoke to my cousin last night and just by chance i asked him what our gt gt father was like (due to a 38 year family fued i have no knowledge) and was told he was a Lay Preacher and Spiritualist, i know what the latter is just dont understand the 1st. I am gradually working my way through the family to find out about that side of the family but its proving a tad bit difficult.
His surname was Jones, around the Merthyr Tydvil area and am assuming this was 1950's and earlier.

Many thanks
Wendy.xxx

[Peph]

A lay preacher is/was a preacher who hasn't been professionally trained.

[flounder]

Many thanks, apparently he was a bit of a character, and had a habit of speaking his mind and not keeping his mouth shut! On 1 such ocassion he had a frying pan bashed over his head! He lived to see another day lol
Well at least he wasnt a miner like the 99% of my family.

Thanks again
Wendy.xxx

[mary elms]

A lay preacher is/was a preacher who hasn't been professionally trained.

Not necessarily. Some lay preachers are/were quite extensively trained! 'Lay' in this case usually means not ordained.

Mary.

[Maximilian]

Not necessarily. Some lay preachers are/were quite extensively trained! 'Lay' in this case usually means not ordained.

Mary.

The original question was about a man said to have been both a Lay Preacher and a Spiritualist. Since, so far as I am aware, Spritualists do not have an ordained Ministry, I am sceptical as to whether they would use the term Lay Preacher, which, as has been said, is a term to describe a person authorised within a particular denomination to preach, and sometimes carry out other functions, but not ordained to the Ministry.

Possibly the informant who gave the original description was simply trying to say that Gt Gdfather Jones was a leader of Spiritualist services, but used the term Lay Preacher because he did not know how else to put it.

A further point I would make is that a Lay Preacher is not normally paid, doing the work as a part-time volunteer, and my understanding of Spiritualists is that, just as they do not have ordained Ministers, they do not normally have full-time other functionaries. So, if Jones was not a miner, how else did he earn his daily bread?

[mary elms]

Yes, the term doesn't make sense in terms of Spiritualism. Flounder said

a Lay Preacher and Spiritualist

so I was thinking in terms of a lay preacher who engaged in or was interested in spiritualism.

Both Maximilian's approach and my approach are possible. It's too early to jump to a conclusion. You need to see if you can find out some more.


Mary.

[Patsy Norman]

John Samuel Mellish married to a Elizabeth Ferguson lived in Liverpool or West Derby had six sons and on daughter ........was a lay preacher in West Derby .....wasnt very happy when his only daughter married an RC....

Eva Marion Mellish married John Patrick Norman..... my husbands late father.....

Have tried tracing this family ....mother Elizabeth Ferguson was from Devon...and it is believed a earlier John Samuel Mellish married to a Grace Dickson was his father also came from Devon.......

Unless the older John Samuel Mellish's family ..... left the Outer Hebrides seems I am getting further away from the Outer Hebrides...Have done nothing with this branch at all...yet

Just wondered wether " Lay Preachers " were ......Methodists .. Presbyterrean and all other Non Catholic .....Non Conformists .......as I understood that only Anglican and Church of England conformed to the religion of the day so always considered myself a non conformist but I am RC and we never have Lay Preachers ...Just interested ..
Regards
Patsy

[Chris Doran]

Just wondered wether " Lay Preachers " were ......Methodists .. Presbyterrean and all other Non Catholic .....Non Conformists .......as I understood that only Anglican and Church of England conformed to the religion of the day so always considered myself a non conformist but I am RC and we never have Lay Preachers ...Just interested ..
Regards
Patsy

The term "Lay Preacher" is used for Baptist, Congregationalist, Presbyterian, United Reformed Church, and members of many other "Free" or "Nonconformist" Churches who conduct worship but are not ordained. Methodists, in my experience, use the term "Local Preacher" to the same effect, but this may not be/have been universally the case. The Church of England ("Anglican") equivalent is "Lay Reader", but what they can do in services is more restricted than their Nonconformist equivalents.

Whilst some will take it back earlier, the term "Nonconformist" stems from those who refused to conform to the rules introduced into the C of E in 1662, along with the Prayer Book of that date -- in particular with the assertion that everyone in England was a member of the C of E whether they liked it or not, and even if they were not believers. "Nonconforming" clergy were thrown out of their C of E churches just before their annually-paid stipend was due. Whilst technically, I suppose, the term "Nonconformist" could include Catholics and Orthodox, it would normally mean all those Christian denominations which are not C of E, Catholic, or Orthodox. The term "Free Church" is more commonly used nowadays.

As to the "Methodist Spiritualist" of the OP, I asked a Methodist Minister whether there was a post of "Spiritualist" in Methodism. He said there was not, but some Methodists had embraced Spiritualist beliefs to more or less extent.

[roymontrose]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and researching among others the Mellish Family from Liverpool. I have researched as far back as John Samuel Mellish born c.1873 in Liverpool. He married Margaret Elizabeth Ferguson on 6th January 1901. I cannot find any record of him having been born in Liverpool. He is on the 1911 census as being on an Army Pension and on the 1901 Census his Occupation is Fireman. Fireman is also his occupation on his Marriage Cewrtificate. His Fathers name on his marriage certificate is also John Mellish (deceased).

I am unable to find any birth details of John Samuel Mellish in Liverpool or for that matter anywhere else. The only John Mellish I can find that may fit in as John Samuels Father is a John Mellish, born c. 1844 who married Grace Dickson in 1868 in Liverpool and came from Dorset I believe.

Can anyone help me with this please?

regards,

Roy Montrose

[Patsy Norman]

My mother in law was Eva Marion Mellish lived in Bootle West Derby she married John Patrick Norman and I married the youngest son Brian Michael Norman
.....

She was an only girl in an all male family ........her father was John Samuel Mellish and her mother was Margaret Elizabeth Mellish nee Ferguson her mother was Annie Ferguson born in Devon.....

The nearest brother to her was Noel Mellish he married and settled in Middlesex and this branch firmly believe that John Samuel Mellish and Grace Dickson were the parents of John Samuel Mellish married to Margaret Elizabeth Ferguson ...Eva's mother .....was in the Home for the Blind........At present we assume that the family may have come from Devon or Dorset.....

Please get in touch with me .......Patsy Norman

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and researching among others the Mellish Family from Liverpool. I have researched as far back as John Samuel Mellish born c.1873 in Liverpool. He married Margaret Elizabeth Ferguson on 6th January 1901. I cannot find any record of him having been born in Liverpool. He is on the 1911 census as being on an Army Pension and on the 1901 Census his Occupation is Fireman. Fireman is also his occupation on his Marriage Cewrtificate. His Fathers name on his marriage certificate is also John Mellish (deceased).

I am unable to find any birth details of John Samuel Mellish in Liverpool or for that matter anywhere else. The only John Mellish I can find that may fit in as John Samuels Father is a John Mellish, born c. 1844 who married Grace Dickson in 1868 in Liverpool and came from Dorset I believe.

Can anyone help me with this please?

regards,

Roy Montrose