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  1. #11
    pottoka
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    Smile

    I've found the online ten-year indices for births in Marseilles! Keep your fingers crossed!

  2. #12
    pottoka
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    Question Too much of a coincidence

    I have found a family called DOWNER producing children in Marseilles in the late 1820s. To me, this is too much of a coincidence to be a different family, but there is one leetle problem ... I haven't found Amelia!

    The ten-year indices turned up the following children:
    Georges Jean Downer, February 1821
    Jhine Charlotte Mary Downer, September 1822
    Blanche Henriette Downer, September 1823
    Christine Chte Downer, August 1824

    Their father's name is Richard Clarke.

    I carried on to the end of 1827 and, when there were no more births, looked to see if the mother had died, but found instead the death in December 1824 of Josephine Chtte Mary Downer.

  3. #13
    pottoka
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    Default The records

    There doesn't seem to be any way to download the records to a hard drive, so here is the link to get to them: https://doris.archives13.fr/dorisuec/...m/win_main.jsp

    Choose 'Marseille' and 'Registres paroissiaux et d'état civil', then click on 'rechercher'. You will get a new page. Ignore the first line; in the second line, tick 'Baptême, naissance'; in line three, put in the year of birth in the box to the right of the one with the drop-down menu (which you ignore); in line four, choose the month of birth; in line five, as follows:
    Georges - février - 2
    Joséphine - septembre - 2
    Blanche - septembre - 4
    Christine - août - 4

    Click on 'rechercher'

    You will get an image of an open book with four "actes" in it.
    Last edited by Lesley Robertson; 22-01-2016 at 6:10 PM. Reason: The URL given in this message no longer works... I've left it in case it revives.

  4. #14
    pottoka
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    Default The records, continued

    The children's father is Richard Clarke Downer and their mother Charlotte Van den Helm or Denhelm. He is given as a man of property or landowner. Unfortunately, unlike all the other French certificates I have seen, these give no indication of the age of the parents.

    George's birth is registered on page 6 (of 61), top right.

    Josephine's birth is in register n° 4 (not 2) and is on page 34 (of 52), bottom left. Her death (tick 'Sépulture, décès' in line 2 and choose register n° 5) is on page 18, of 28, bottom right.

    Blanche is on page 39 (of 48), bottom right.

    Christine is on page 27 (of 45), bottom left, and is given there as Christina Charlotte.

  5. #15
    pottoka
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    Finally, the IGI has a christening for a Richard Clark Downer aged 1 on 18th June 1780 at St Botolph Bishopgate, London.
    I shall now go and try not to dream about Amelia (I'm miffed that she didn't turn up!)

  6. #16
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottoka View Post
    Parlez-vous français, Sue?
    Je comprends presque tout mais ....

    Pottoka this is fantastic



    Sorry not to reply sooner but I got up at 6am and went on the train to Kew to photograph more South African BMDs for my transcription project, and I have only just got back.

    Will digest all your postings and follow that link and be in touch tomorrow.

    Merci bien
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  7. #17
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Well, this has certainly given me something to think about. Whether or not the Downers turn out to be the same family as the Downies, I have learnt a bit of history and geography this morning

    I put the name Richard Clark Downer into Ancestry and it came up with some original slave owner documents for 1819. In 1819 Richard was a plantation owner in Berbice, which I confess I had to look up. It was apparently combined with Demerara to form British Guyana.

    At first it seemed unlikely that this could be Amelia's father. Then I noticed that the other slave owner on the same page was a Hector DOWNIE! The only Hector Downie I have found came from Ross and Cromarty, and I have come across a few families in Ross and Sutherland who had connections to plantations in Demerara. All very tantalising!

    I also put the name DOWNIE into the IGI for France and it came up with some hits, but all later that 1819 and in Biarritz, Paris and Le Havre!

    Plenty to get my teeth into here! Will also try out the records that Kerrywood mentioned at the Guildhall.
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  8. #18
    pottoka
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    Smile Biarritz records

    If you want anything looked up in Biarritz, give me a shout as the records are only just down the road.

  9. #19
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottoka View Post
    If you want anything looked up in Biarritz, give me a shout as the records are only just down the road.
    Thanks Pottoka. I am now leaning towards a naval/seafaring connection for my DOWNIEs, but I can't prove anything. I keep getting frustratingly close and then coming to another dead end

    I did a census search for anyone called DOWNIE who was born in France and found two sisters, Hannah Bouchier and Agnes DOWNIE in Portsea in 1861with their stepmother, who was decribed as the wife of a RN Inspector of Machinery. The IGI showed me that this was John DOWNIE, who had married Hannah KILGOUR in 1839 in Southampton. The two girls were the ones born in Le Havre. I downloaded John's service record from TNA and acme to the conclusion that he could, just possibly, be Amelia's brother. I got his marriage certificate, which says that his father was a mariner called Alexander DOWNIE. I downloaded a will for an Alexander DOWNIE, master mariner, which is quite difficult to read, but I haven't found any reference to an Amelia

    Ah well, if it was too easy we'd all get bored, wouldn't we? Thanks again for causing me to re-open this one and have another look!
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  10. #20
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Am updating this old thread as I have finally made a bit of a breakthrough (I think) with Amelia DOWNIE, thanks to an updated tree online of someone I know to be distantly related to me.

    I have found Amelia's marriage to John CHANDLER, which took place on 29 May 1837 in St.Giles in the Fields, London. She is listed as DOWNING, and certainly appeared to sign her name this way. This couple seem bent on confusing me, so it is no surprise that they rushed to get married a few weeks before civil registration started! One of the witnesses was John's sister, and their first child, Edward, was born in London in June 1838, so I am satisfied this is the correct marriage.

    The tree I have found lists Amelia's father as Edward DOWNIE from Scotland (which would fit with her naming her firstborn son Edward), who was a soldier in the 14th Regiment. His service record says he was born in 1790 in St.Quivox, Ayr, son of another Edward DOWNIE/DOUNIE and a Jean TAGGART. The regimental history of the second battalion of the 14th indicates postings in Malta and Marseilles, and the tree lists two other daughters, Elizabeth (born in Malta in 1813) and Jane (born in Marseilles in 1815), but I have as yet found no proof of this. The Miltary Births on FMP does seem to list a Jane DOWNIE born in Marseilles, so I might be able to get that certificate, although I can't quite make out the references. Is anyone with a sub willing to have a look?

    Kerrywood, if you read this I have just re-read your advice to look in the Guildhall records, which I never got round to, but I will try to do this before too long, though we have a big trip coming up for my husband's retirement so it will probably be after that.

    Just shows though. It's always worth revisiting previous dead ends!
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

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