BEATRICE MCCRIE MUIR.....JAMES MUIR/MARY WATSON

[robbiej]

I AM LOOKING FOR...
BIRTH of James Muir and DEATH,.... also BIRTH AND DEATH & MARRIAGE.. OF MARY WATSON....... HIS WIFE (She had a sister Janet who I believe died shortly after marriage to ???)
JAMES AND MARY had a child Beatrice Mccrie MUIR who was born Lanark 1836 ? (died October 1897).
I need her BIRTH.
Beatrice married Thomas Campbell in Aug of 1869 Glasgow.
Thomas was born I think 1844 Lanark, and died Feb 1893...I DO NOT HAVE HIS DEATH CERT...
Any help here please ??
I have looked in Scotland'sPeople but cannot find them, but someone else may have better luck than I !

[Lesley Robertson]

I AM LOOKING FOR...
BIRTH of James Muir and DEATH,.... also BIRTH AND DEATH & MARRIAGE.. OF MARY WATSON....... HIS WIFE (She had a sister Janet who I believe died shortly after marriage to ???)
JAMES AND MARY had a child Beatrice Mccrie MUIR who was born Lanark 1836 ? (died October 1897).
I need her BIRTH.
Beatrice married Thomas Campbell in Aug of 1869 Glasgow.
Thomas was born I think 1844 Lanark, and died Feb 1893...I DO NOT HAVE HIS DEATH CERT...
Any help here please ??
I have looked in Scotland'sPeople but cannot find them, but someone else may have better luck than I !

The trouble with pre-1855 happenings is that we depend on baptism and marriage registrations, and there's major limitations depending on the survivial of registers and the whim of the Minister as to what he recorded. The other problem is that both the IGI and Scotlands People are based on the registers of the Church of Scotland and if a family belonged to any of the other denominations, they frequently don't appear. The records of the non-conformist churches are mostly (where they survive) in the National Archives of Scotalnd, and not yet on line.

I can't find James and Mary's children's baptisms and therefore suspect that they may have been non-conformists. I assume that you have found the 1869 marriage certificate? Have a look and see what it says about the type of service (usually something along the lines of "Banns according to the Free Church" or one of the other churches.) It may also specify the Church of the Minister. Then at least you'll know.

I would then look for the family in the 1841 and 1851 census. Since Beatrice is a less common name than James and Mary, I would search for her. Also remember that name spelling was a fuzzy business and you need to check Moor/Moore as well. If you find a census entry, that'll help with the names of other children as well as ages and (on the 51) birth parishes. If they have very young children on the '51, try the '61 to see whether child production continued to 1855 - then get that birth certificate.

There are 2 possible death certs for Mary Muir-Watson on Scotlands People - in 1872 and 1876. With luck, one of them is yours, but Women are always easier to find since you can search on both surnames at the same time. Her death cert will tell you whether she was a widow or a wife, giving you a better idea of when James died.

If I have any other ideas, I'll get back to you.
In the mean time, good luck!

Lesley

[robbiej]

Thanks Lesley, I have the Marriage Cert. 1834, but it does not say anything about where they were married, only that they were married by a relief minister in Glasgow.
I also have Ancestry Census Certs . The first for 1841..@ Taylor St. Glasgow, just giving James as 40 a wright/builder, which it says on the Marriage Cert. Mary his Wife as 35, Beatrice 3, James 1, and Marion 5.
Then @ 52 Holmhead St Glasgow in 1861,
James as 61, Mary as 54, then
Marion B 24, William Watson 11, Beatrice McCrie 16, and James 30. I wonder where the other child William was in the prior census?
I see your point, so I should now look for an 1851 Census to get William.. Correct? Then go for the Birth Certs of the dates taken from these??
You mentioned the Moore etc. Yes that one is a real headache ! Cannot get him at all. Nor can anyone else it seems... He is a realy mystery... BUT... I have a friend, who is hopefully going to Edinburgh Oct. She hopes, tp go in and have a look and see if she can come up with anything. I hope so...

[Lesley Robertson]

Thanks Lesley, I have the Marriage Cert. 1834, but it does not say anything about where they were married, only that they were married by a relief minister in Glasgow.
.

That probably explains their failure to appear in the IGI/SP. The relief Church was one of the non-conformist groups. There's a decent article about it on Wikipedia, here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ch_of_Scotland

The '61 census should give you their birth parishes. remember that the formation of the non-conformist churches often cut across families, so they might have been baptised into the CoS.

Since James was alive in the '61, I think I'd go for the '71 rather than the '51. The idea is to limit the number of years you (or your friend) have to search for his death. If you find a census where one of the couple is shown as a widow, then you only have to search +/- 5 years for the death. Mary's easier to pinpoint since you can search on her maiden and married surnames together.

Anything before 1855 is not a certificate, just an entry in the church register, which is why there's not much info. It doesn't look as though any of their kids were born post 1855, sadly, as this would (except for a few years) give their wedding date and place.

Good luck,
Lesley

[robbiej]

Hi Leslie,
JAMES MUIR/MARY WATSON. Well I have had a look. Cannot find a census for them 1871 on Ancestry, THEY MUST SURELY BE THERE !.(Will ask Eric to check again).. The Marriage Cert? says nothing, as it is only by a Relief Minister, and doesn't mention the church at all.
((Given to ME was being married to her on Nov 4th 1834 in Central Districts Glasgow, which I think takes in Lanark? but not being familiar with the areas I am a bit at sea. However the actual CERT that I have does not give that information..))

MARY's Birth I THINK.. has come up on Scotland'sPeople.
a possible... one in the lot of 10, is for Glasgow..Parents are Thomas Watson/Hannah Henderson on 10/11/1807, so I think I might have a go at that one, unless you think it a 'no go' ! Where else can I look ?

They were both alive on the 1861 Census, living in Holmhead St. Lanarkshire (That is Glasgow isn't it ? as I stayed with my Cousin in Nova Cr and I am sure that address was just down the road)
I will have a go at getting the DEATH Cert from the dates you have said of between 1872 - 1876, and as you say that will give a better idea of James Death anyway !

Forget the MOORE for the moment..A Too Hard Basket ! - That one is on my Father's (Robertson) side, and not relevant to here. Until Sarah goes to Scotland, hopefully next month, I haven't a 'hope in heydes' of finding him !...well that satisfies me !! She has said she will look in at the Research Centre and see what she can find. So fingers crossed for that one.
Grateful for your help Leslie.....
Please...Let me know if there are any other areas - apart from S/People that I can look to that might give any info.
Where do I find Parish records apart from S/P.??
ALSO.... would you or your co-??, by any chance know where or how I can obtain transcript of DIVORCE proceedings of 1874???.
It would seem that JEAN LIDDELL who was originally married to John Campbell, who died,.... then married a George MUIR.
She divorced him March 18. 1874.
I would like to get that info if I could. Any Ideas as to how or where?
Thanks again Leslie - Help is very much appreciated.
Jan

[Lesley Robertson]

Hi Leslie,
JAMES MUIR/MARY WATSON. Well I have had a look. Cannot find a census for them 1871 on Ancestry, THEY MUST SURELY BE THERE !.(Will ask Eric to check again).. The Marriage Cert? says nothing, as it is only by a Relief Minister, and doesn't mention the church at all.
((Given to ME was being married to her on Nov 4th 1834 in Central Districts Glasgow, which I think takes in Lanark? but not being familiar with the areas I am a bit at sea. However the actual CERT that I have does not give that information..))

MARY's Birth I THINK.. has come up on Scotland'sPeople.
a possible... one in the lot of 10, is for Glasgow..Parents are Thomas Watson/Hannah Henderson on 10/11/1807, so I think I might have a go at that one, unless you think it a 'no go' ! Where else can I look ?

They were both alive on the 1861 Census, living in Holmhead St. Lanarkshire (That is Glasgow isn't it ? as I stayed with my Cousin in Nova Cr and I am sure that address was just down the road)
I will have a go at getting the DEATH Cert from the dates you have said of between 1872 - 1876, and as you say that will give a better idea of James Death anyway !

Grateful for your help Leslie.....
Please...Let me know if there are any other areas - apart from S/People that I can look to that might give any info.
Where do I find Parish records apart from S/P.??
ALSO.... would you or your co-??, by any chance know where or how I can obtain transcript of DIVORCE proceedings of 1874???.
It would seem that JEAN LIDDELL who was originally married to John Campbell, who died,.... then married a George MUIR.
She divorced him March 18. 1874.
I would like to get that info if I could. Any Ideas as to how or where?
Thanks again Leslie - Help is very much appreciated.
Jan

If you look at that link I gave you, you'll see that the Relief Church was a denomination in its own right, he wan't a temp taking some of the load from someone else.

Most of Glasgow was in Lanark, although apparently odd bits might have sprawled into other counties. You may find the GENUKI section on Lanark useful:
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/LKS/index.html

If you have an LDS family history centre near you, you can ask them to get the films of parish registers (they may have gone digital, but I've not been to one for a while) for you to search for baptisms and marriages.
That GENUKI link also provides links to the 2 relevant FHSs for the area. I like searching the films - you never know who else you'll find just because you have to look through the whole list.

If a marriage ended in divorce, when you call up the certificate of that marriqage on SP, you will also be offered (by a red button) the option to go to the Register of Corrected Entries, where it will show the registration of the divorce. I doubt whther you can get at the court proceedings.

Do note that I use the female version of my forename....

Lesley