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  1. #21
    busyglen
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    Thanks Ann, have now received it.

    Strangely enough, I had already found the same piece earlier this morning and spent ages pouring over it, only to come to the conclusion, that it still didn't prove whether he owned the land or not. There was a bit towards the end, that said sometimes, it wasn't possible to be sure whether the land was owned or rented. Sigh!!

    Having found William Ladd,(with help) in Bagshaws 1847 Gazetteer & Directory of Kent, The PO Directory of 1855, and the Poll for the Knights 1857.....plus Stephen Ladd in the Return of the Owners of Land 1873, and Kellys Directory 1882, I am of the opinion that they owned the land....but..if they did, it would have probably had to be sold when Stephen died, but I don't know what sort of records if any would be kept to show this. Wish I had listened more to my Grandfather, when he was alive, but then I was in my early 20s and not really interested in that sort of thing then!

    Thanks again for your help Ann, I appreciate it.

    Glen

  2. #22
    busyglen
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    Quote Originally Posted by janbooth View Post
    Glenys,

    All the Owners on the 1873 CD have an estimated rental value, so from that I just assumed that the powers that be estimated what the rental value of the land owned would be - does that make sense?? Perhaps someone with a greater knowledge of the 1873 disc will be able to confirm this assumption.

    Janet
    Thanks for that information Jan, I understand what you are saying. I googled the `Return of Owners Land 1873' and found a complete guide and information, which is very informative. Ann also found it as well. Unfortunately, it has left me non the wiser.

    I did wonder if the Poll for the Knights of the Shire 1857, listed only the businessmen/owners eligible to vote, or whether it included non-owners as well. Can't find anything to substantiate it either way at the moment.

    Glenys

  3. #23
    salcat
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    Would the estimated rental value have something to do with calculating taxes due? The old system of rates in the UK had a similar basis - the ratable value was originally the rental value, which then became fixed at a certain date (no idea when) and the rates payable were £x times the ratable value.

    Just a thought

    Sally

  4. #24
    busyglen
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    Hi Sally,

    I've found information about this now, and although things changed now and again, it would appear that the annual gross estimated rental, is not the amount of rent paid to the person under whose name as owner it appears, but the amount of the entire rents which the occupying tenants of the whole property would be presumed to pay to their immediate lessors.

    In the case of pure agricultural land, it is intended to show the rent at which the property might be expected to be let from year to year. It isn't a set figure. It all seems very complex, especially when one is not sure whether the person we are looking at is the owner, or the lessee.

    Thanks for your input Sally.

    Glenys

  5. #25
    busyglen
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    Well...even more things evolving with William. I checked the Kellys Directory for 1824 for Deal, and found William as the prop. of the 5 Bells Public House in Queen St. Deal. Quite a change from that to Farmer later! I also found his name in the same directory for a Bakers in Sandwich! So....he looks to have had quite a few irons in the fire to start with.

    Glenys

  6. #26
    Colin Moretti
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    Quote Originally Posted by busyglen View Post
    ... I did wonder if the Poll for the Knights of the Shire 1857, listed only the businessmen/owners eligible to vote, or whether it included non-owners as well. Can't find anything to substantiate it either way at the moment.

    Glenys
    This might help

    https://www.victorianweb.org/history/hist2.html

    Colin

  7. #27
    busyglen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Moretti View Post
    Thank you so much for that Colin, it has been a great help!


    Glenys

  8. #28
    busyglen
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    Default Update!

    It just goes to show that it pays to ask family for information!

    Trying to discover the correct birth place and father of William Ladd has led me all over the place, and yesterday I suddenly recalled that a cousin of mine and I share the same line and he had done research on this quite a few years ago. So....I emailed him to check on some information, and he came back with a chronological list of events in the life of our Grandfather Lewis Ladd (Stephen Ladd being his father). I had most of the information, but there in black and white it shows that in 1892 Stephen died aged 57, and in 1896 they sold the smallholding! So....they did own the property!

    We are now getting together and pooling our information, as we have both discovered different facts which will put more meat on the bones, for both of us.

    Thanks for all the help given, it's been really appreciated, and we both now have the listings of the various directories etc. that support the facts now.

    to all.

    Glenys

  9. #29
    Valued member of Brit-Gen
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    England
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    Looking for information do you know if the house is still standing today, or even if the deed (indentures) are logged with the local history centre. I only mention this because I have found with my family and only this year after nearly 10 years of searching that indentures for property will have wills and other information which should help. (feoffment a mode of conveying a freehold estate by a formal transfer of possession) this is when someone dies and does not leave a will, not sure if I have the spelling right though. So if you can find out if the house is still standing today, and if there are any deeds that go with it then you may just get lucky like I did.

    See if there is a community web site (I did this) and see if someone local can help. If you do find something and get an address send an sae with stamp, we sent 3 the main one replied which we got a lot of information from, the other emailed but I didn't hear anymore and the 3rd which I am also very interested in didn't reply. I hope one day that we will get some answers from that house though.

    Oh and just a thought would not the rental cost be like our old rates you would get an estimated rental cost if you were to rent it out and that was the way they collected rates. Another way of seeing how much people were worth as well and how much they could collect from them. I don't think that is what they would have paid but what they would have received if they were to rent it out. Someone correct me if I am wrong please.

    Irene

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