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  1. #11
    thewideeyedowl
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    Default John Roach, 1860-1943: West Mill

    Good afternoon fellow posters !

    I've just dropped by and found that the Roach research is moving forward. Fantastic ! I am interested not as family but as someone who is researching John Roach as an employer.

    In the 1911 Census, my husband's grandfather and young family were living at West Mill, Carisbrooke Road, Newport, IW. Grandfather Frank Cooke is 'General Miller and Stoneman, Roach's Flour Mill'. I understand that John Roach and his wife Leonora were living at West Mill House (?). Anyway, it sounds as if it is part of the Mill complex. I contacted the IWFHS about this and received two emails, which helped to clarify things a little. Here is the content of the first one:

    I was looking at the Isle of Wight history society website and saw your query regarding West Mill. I'm not a member of the society, but have family from the IoW.

    The owner of the mill was John Roach, born 1860 in Whippingham, IoW. You will find he also gives West Mill as his address on the 1911 Census. He was my 2xGGF's brother and married his 1st cousin Leonora Roach. He was quite a character on the island, and with a bit of search, you will find his obituary and other details of the mill.

    The Roach family owned 3 mills on the island, including East Medina Mill. They were quite well to do and bettered themselves through marriage.


    The second emailer was able to identify the site of West Mill, which is hidden away off Carisbrooke Road. It is now a Listed building - see National Record of Industrial Momuments. The citation states:

    18th century watermill and corn mill situated just north of the Carisbrooke road and reached by a private road... Three storeys with loft and basement.....Ashlar lined millstream to north west but the wheel no longer exists. I found this info on PastScape.

    I understand that John Roach's brother James died within a year or two of the census; I also understand that it was James who had been running the other family mills (the Tide Mills), but when James died John took over the whole business. (I have yet to research in depth to verify all this, but it is on the 'to do' list.... Have also still to check out John Roach in IW newspapers.

    Now for my own hypothesis and queries: When John Roach had to assume responsibility for the whole family milling business, did he delegate the running of West Mill to Frank Cooke, the General Miller? Whatever happened, it seems that Frank Cooke (who was from a long line of ag labs) must have made some money because in 1925 he bought a small terraced cottage in Elm Grove, Newport, for his eldest daughter when she got married - he set the young couple up. The little house remained in the ownership of the family until the late 1980s.

    Here is a link to info about the Tide Mills: https://woottonbridgeiow.org.uk/wightlife/tides.php. (Hope it works. Add a www if there are probs.)


    Must swoop off now - food to prepare and visitors coming, so I won't be back here for several days.

    The Wideeyed Owl

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clipper View Post
    Ian Roach in Regina has created a large PDF document showing the family trees and history, specifically from Thomas Robinson Roach on down. Since he created the doc I would need to ask his permission to send it to you. At present I'm not home, but when I get back I'll send his contact info to you.
    Clipper was nice enough to pass along a link to this site and I have registered as a user and will help where I can. I'm not a professional genealogist and the information I have is mostly not backed by proven sources but some of the older information has been passed down through the family and was reportedly copied from records at the IOW. I am the eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son of TR so my focus has been primarily on the Roach descendents of TR but I have a significant amount of information about all the descendents of TR. However, most of it is birth-death stuff and I am almost more interested in the related 'life story' kinds of information that led up to the dispersal of the family abroad in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

  3. #13
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    MaidinOman ... I'm afraid I don't have any information for you on Leonard. I didn't even have his wife's name or their children so I'm not going to be much help to you I don't think.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaidinOman View Post
    They had 10 children as follows:
    Sarah (1811-1877)
    Margaret (1812-?)
    Thomas Robinson (1814-1877) - your interest?
    John (1817-?)
    George (1818-?)
    Ellen (1820-1853)
    Twins Amelia and Emily (1825-?)
    Leonard (1827-1902) - my concern
    James William Roach (1821-?)
    Interested to know if you have any more about the Australian connection. i think maybe Leonard was not the only child to emigrate there? You can email me at

    jmkinsman AT gmail DOT com
    regards
    Jane
    Jane ..for what it's worth, my records don't exactly match yours. After TR, I have James (1815) then John (1816). I also have Amelia as 1821 and Emily at 1825 so not twins by my records. I also have James William as 1831 not 1821.

  5. #15
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    Brenda .. my information is the same as yours right down to the cousins marrying. However, I didn't have any of the Corfield children (other than Leonora) in your later thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by racing girl View Post
    James inherited the family business of Tide Mills, was a grain and corn merchant and also lived at the house in East Medina, Whippingham. He married into my husbands Palmer family and they raised their children there.
    One of their 8 children was Arthur who was my grandfather. He married Grace Williams and they settled in Saskatchewan where he was a farmer and bridge builder. He died in 1951.

  6. #16
    racing girl
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    Hello Wideeyed owl
    I saw your query on the IOW FHS site but it said that you had the required info so I didn't contact you.

    James Roach died on 12 July 1911. All of his own sons had emigrated to Canada which is why the mills then passed to John & Leonora Roach, James had been running all three in partnership with John. With James dead, his sons in Canada and John Roach having no children of his own I would assume your hypothesis is likely correct, and your relative may have become manager at Westmill. Not sure that we'll ever know that for sure though, but as you say, someone from an Ag Lab background wouldn't have had the funds to buy a property for his daughter in ordinary circumstances.

    I'm enclosing a brief extract from a memoir I have, written by the nephew of John & Nora (Leonora). The writer used to spend his summer holidays at East Medina with the Roach family as a small boy. The time period he is writing about is around 1923, he mentions Westmill:

    "If one walked on through Newport there was the other Roach mill, Westmill, also water-powered but from a constantly-fed pond, so that the men there worked regular day-time hours. There was a Model T Ford delivery van, but the bulk of the carrying was by horse and cart, and there were three light and three heavy ones, with stabling for a dozen horses. The mill house stood nearby, but separated from the mill compound by a brick wall. It no longer belonged to the family, but Uncle John and Aunty Nora lived in it until his brother James died, when they moved to East Medina."

    So it seems likely by 1923 parts of Westmill had already been sold off. This is about all my info on that one mill I'm afraid! Nice to know part of it still exists.

    I'm also interested to know who your first emailer was! Perhaps if I pm you my email address, you can pass it along to that first contact?

    Cheers
    Brenda

  7. #17
    racing girl
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    Ian - fantastic to hear from you. Don't worry about not being a professional researcher, very few of us are, we just have an interest in our families and the times in which they lived. We all have a few good documents, like a marriage certificate or a birth certificate, immigration records, WWI attestation papers, obituaries etc so we can piece together the basic facts with some degree of accuracy, the rest becomes supposition or the best guess based on all the info at hand, but if we can all pool our resources then we can build up a fairly decent picture of their lives.

    For example, you say you're the eldest son of the eldest son of the eldest son etc. However at one point in that, that should be "eldest surviving son" as James Roach and Grace Caroline Palmer Roach's first born was a boy, George James in 1879, sadly he died aged just 11 wks, making your Arthur Helmore Roach the oldest surviving son. Arthur's middle name comes from Grace Helmore, Grace Caroline's mother.

    Anyway, back to TR Roach, I have the following:
    My earliest Roach is Henry (c1665 - 1728) who married Mary Trattle (c1670 - 1742)

    But from TR Roach I have:
    Sarah 1811 - 1877
    Margaret 1812
    Thomas Robinson 1814-1877
    James 1815
    John 1817
    George 1818
    Ellen 1820 - 1853
    Amelia 1822
    Emily 1825 - 1905
    Leonard 1827
    James William 1831

    Parents were James Roach (1778 - 1847) and Sarah Robinson (c1785) who married on 29 March 1809. I have a few baptisms for some of the children and a couple of TR's siblings married off, but not the whole picture.

    I found Arthur Helmore Roach on a land grant in Saskatchewan but there was no date listed. I also think he had a son, James Richard Roach, who died in 2001 but I can't be totally sure about that. I could never find who Arthur had married or if he had other children.

    I have Walter Douglas marring Mabel Atrill, having two children and then also ending up in Canada, possibly dying in 1952.

    Leslie Palmer seems to have married in Canada, to Elma Olive Branch Alexander. She died and he married her sister Dorothye. There were three children but I don't know to which wife. I have his WWI Attestation Papers when he joined the Cadadian Expeditionay Forces but I know nothing about his time in the military.

    As to Eastace James, I don't know when he emigrated, where he lived or who he married. I just have his date of death as 9 April 1959 in White Rock, BC.

    As to the girls, I have Mary Grace (1880-1935) marrying Frederick Stokoe with three children, two of whom survived. Florence Ellen (1881), Mildred (1883 - 1944) and Kathleen Ida (1892 - 1914).

    That's about where I'm at with the modern Roach family. I have quite a bit Palmer info and also a lot of Cruttwell and Helmore info. The Cruttwells, Helmores and Palmers are your direct line on Grace Caroline Palmer's side.

    I shall pm you my email address too, I'd love to see the pdf you've put together.

    Regards,
    Brenda

  8. #18
    racing girl
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    And of course George James (1879-1879). So 9 children in total for James and Carry (Grace Caroline). James also seems to have been known by his middle name of William.

  9. #19
    Clipper
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    Does anyone know about George Roach (he is family as well) at:
    https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...r&GRid=8666324

  10. #20
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
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    Tks racing girl .. great stuff. I have sent you more info via email on the descendents of James and Caroline.

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