Gumm Brickwall

[Marie C..]

Here goes! Please help me find Thomas.
THOMAS GUMM (born Ham Surrey 1782(submitted entry Lds site, no way of contacting submitter). Married JOANNAH ? , 1807c walton on Thames Surrey.(IGI)::
Children as follows> (all baptised Kingston on Thames.(LDS) Kingston was used for Ham christenings until 1832 when St Andrews Ham was opened.)
Edward 1809
Mary Ann 1812(married James New in Isleworth and lived in Ham until her death)
Elizabeth , born Dec 1814, bap Jan 1815,(married John Charles Abbott in Isleworth and they emmigrated to Adelaide S.A on the Buckingham in 1839.
REBECCA(gt,gt grandmother) born 1817, married W. R Burley etc etc.
Isaac, born 1817(twin) died1819.
Dinah born 1821 ... disappears.
There is also a Charles Gumm born 1810/11 in Walton on Thames. He is on 1861 census as a boarder, widowed , with daughter matilda aged 3 born Maldon Essex... then they diappear.
Could this Charles have been another child of Thomas and Johannah?

Thomas Gumm and wife existed. Thomas Gumm is down on daughter, Rebecca's marriage cert. as a farmer. (it does not say deceased).
No sign of Thomas or Johannah on any census. No birth, no death, no passport applications.
A Mrs and Miss Gumm went from England to USA in the 1850's.(no further info on this entry)
Have contacted Surrey Hist. centre. No Gumms in Ham.
No one else seems to be researching my Ham Gumms.
Are parish registers for Ham available on CD?
All suggestions welcomed.
Marie

[Neil Wilson]

After first reading I would search for GUNNS or GUNN as well as GUMM. Have you widened your search to include these?

[Marie C..]

I have searched everywhere Neil, Gum/Gomme Gomm/Gun/Gunn. However I will follow your suggestion and take another look at GUNN.
Charlbury Gumms seem to have the same christian names as my Gumms but mine were in Ham.
The only proof they existed at all is my marriage cert for Rebecca. Her husband was in the army so they were obviously abroad somewhere in1841 and 1851. Have also an army birth for her one and only child born Camberwell in 1838 and know where she lived in later life as it was the family house and handed down
Marie

[LittleMissP]

Hi, I wouldn't be that worried about a family moving around Surrey for this sort of family that obviously were mobile through the army and even when in the area (Maldon, Kingston both close, Charbury further away I know), and weight is added to that by the Surrey FHS not having records- they might have regularly been out of the area or even country. When did Rebecca marry? But why does it mean they were obviously abroad? I think you need to search wider...

Also, sometimes 'deceased' is unfortunately not factual (not that often but it happens fairly regularly)

I think you might have the misfortune of terrible translation at the time and terrible transciption of the censuses later... You seem to be on to quite a good thing though with some Gumms not far away... I'd do a little tree for them and see where it takes me...

Best of luck!

Paula

[Marie C..]

Thank you Little Miss P,
It was only Rebecca my gt, gt Grandma,(married Charlton kent 1843) who moved around as her husband was in the army(as was their son and grandson) I have all I need for her.Her sister Elizabeth went to Oz and died there in 1847, Mary Ann married and stayed in Ham until her death. She had nine boys and then a daughter) , Isaac(Rebecca's twin) died aged two. The other siblings I just can't find anything for. They just all vanished. It is further back that I need. - Thomas Gumm born Ham 1782 and who were his parents. Until I find these I am quite stuck. And where did they go as they are not on 1841? And if his wife was called Johannah why was there not a daughter Johannah named after her?
And how does one get in touch with the LDS people to ask where they got that submitted entry from when they give no details about the submitter?

[Jan1954]

And how does one get in touch with the LDS people to ask where they got that submitted entry from when they give no details about the submitter?

At the bottom of the Family Search homepage, there is a "contact us" link. Click on that and post your question.

Good luck,

[Marie C..]

Thanks Jan,
I have found it and done that.
Hope they may have an answer.
There must be records somewhere!
Marie

[Peter Goodey]

Marie

I'm afraid it is a waste of time pursuing IGI patron submissions.

The entry you mentioned shows
"Birth: About 1782 Of Ham, , Surrey, England"

The words "about" and "of" indicate that this is a complete figment of someone's imagination. 1782 would have been calculated as 25 years before the marriage date you mentioned. This is based on the belief that all males marry at the age of 25.

Have you validated the marriage (found it in the actual parish register)?

Your best approach is to get down to some serious study of parish registers.

[Marie C..]

You are quite right Peter,
Have had a reply from Fam. search and it is simply a load of gobbledygook that re-reading several times has left me utterly baffled.
Yes I have asked for parish register look up at Surrey hist place and they have no Gumm in Ham. (referred me to the Family search site for the childrens' baptisms which I already had.!)
Someone else also looked up for me . No luck there either.
We have Guildford Gumms with the same family names but no Thomas born 1782 ish.
He is there on Rebecca's marriage cert. The two other sisters married 1831 and 1833 in Isleworth(just a ferry-ride across the river from Ham)so no certs available then. Might try seeing Isleworth parish marriage records and see if any info there. Might try Suffolk record office one day to see info on Cavendish estates as they owned farms in Ham and see whether my Thomas Gumm is mentioned there and whether he leased or bought the farm from them. Why can't we know our family history when young? I lived in Isleworth for years.
M

[Peter Goodey]

You need the marriage next. Try resources like the Surrey Marriage Index. Then check the actual parish register. Burial indexes can help to locate surname groups.