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  1. #21
    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    As I mentioned previously, the parish register transcript of the marriage of Richard PERKINS and Ann HORTON does not give any ages, just that they were of the parish and married by banns. Your Richard & Ann may not have been married in either Birmingham or Warwickshire. Given that they both died before any census records, we only know that they were resident in Birmingham from 1796 onwards when son Thomas was baptised. They may even had had other children prior to the birth of Thomas that you do not know about.

    Looking further at the parish registers of Birmingham St Philip, there is a burial on 31 October 1806 of a Richard PERKINS and a burial on 19 March 1808 for an Ann PERKINS, no further details on either burial so it is difficult to tell whether they are connected to your Richard in any way. Unfortunately the parish registers of Birmingham are not very informative for the period you are interested in, no professions shown and no addresses, so it is difficult to work out whether any of the PERKINS entries are connected to your family.

    You could perhaps look through the Birmingham Archives online catalogue via the National Archives Discovery website to see if there is any mention of your PERKINS family. As your Richard born 1799 was a Pistol Maker, one assumes he would have to have served an apprenticeship somewhere unless his father before him was also a Pistol/Gun Maker.

    Janet
    Impatience can be a virtue - honestly!

  2. #22
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    Janet, the part that has me wondering is the Richard Perkins who was an apprentice Gun maker in London in 1774 for 7 years.

    Richard who married Ann Horton would have only been about 3 if born in 1771

    and Pistol/Gun making is Richard Perkins (born 1799) who married Harriet Kendrick's profession.

  3. #23
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    Janet it is interesting that after the death of that Richard Perkins 31 October 1806 in Birmingham there doesn't appear to be any further children to a Richard and Ann Perkins in Birmingham around this time period but the year prior (1805) Sarah Perkins was born in Birmingham with parents of Richard and Ann.

  4. #24
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    Janet, If the 1806 death is Richard Snr. This would explain why when Ritchard Jnr married Harriet Kendrick, his younger brother witnessed the marriage plus Ann (either sister or mum) plus why when William married Elizabeth Hall, Richard and Harriet were the witnesses).

    Do you know what age you had to be to become an Apprentice Pistol maker?

  5. #25
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    Janet,

    Richard Jnr was married 9 Nov 1823 at Aston Juxta Birmingham.

    I have found a death of a Richard Perkins 10 Feb 1828, St Marys Birmingham he was born 1762 so he would have been 12 at the time the Richard Perkins you found that was the Apprentice Gun/Pistol maker started his apprenticeship and about 37 when my Richard Jnr was born.

  6. #26
    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    Yes that Richard PERKINS is the one I mentioned in post 4 above. Trouble is there appear to be several Richard PERKINS in Birmingham at the time you are interested in. It could perhaps be 3 generations or they may not even be connected. A Google search informs me that apprenticeships in England usually took place when the apprentice was about 12 or 13 (in London it should theoretically be 14) but could be as young as 7 years old, so the date of 1774 would fit in very well with the Richard PERKINS born c1762 wouldn't it but we need a bit more proof.

    Looking for any marriages to an Ann in the London area after 1781 when the London Richard PERKINS would have completed his apprenticeship, I have found two, both shown in full on Ancestry, one in 1793 at St Mary Lambeth to an Ann WHEELER and the other in 1794 at St Luke Finsbury to an Ann CLARK. However, the latter marriage states that Richard was of St Olave Southwark and there are several baptisms at Bermondsey of children to a Richard & Ann PERKIN(S), he being a Pawnbroker or Cordwainer, so I think we can maybe rule him out as being the Gun Maker apprentice. I cannot find any baptisms at St Mary Lambeth for children of a Richard and Ann PERKIN(S), but again whether they are anything to do with your Richard and Ann PERKINS, who knows.

    Janet
    Impatience can be a virtue - honestly!

  7. #27
    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    I think the Ann PERKINS who was buried in 1808 (post 21) is likely to be the unmarried sister of a Henry PERKINS. There is a PCC Will on Ancestry for her in which she mentions her brother Henry & sister Mary.

    Janet
    Impatience can be a virtue - honestly!

  8. #28
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    Thanks,

    Yes a few Richards married to Ann when looking outside of Warwick.

  9. #29
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    I may have to join the British historical newspapers site and look for obituaries, marriages and at Family notices etc. Over here in Australia our Trove Historical Newspapers are free to browse etc.

  10. #30
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    Janet,

    further to the apprentice indenture 1774 of Richard Perkins.

    Insured: Richard Perkins, Wednesbury, Staffordshire, gun filer, mortgagor and Hannah Manley, Walsall, Staffordshire, mortgagee
    Other property or occupiers: Wednesbury, Staffordshire (Phineas Stone, gunlock filer; jno. Stokes, gunlock filer)

    10 May 1788

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