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  1. #1
    Valued member of Brit-Gen. *bunty*'s Avatar
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    Default Athalia Parish - UPDATE

    For all those who helped me brainstorm ideas on the three apparently illegitimate sons of Athalia Parish (see thread https://www.british-genealogy.com/for...ad.php?t=25668 ), it was suggested that I send for a birth certificate for one of the children. I chose the middle child, Charles Parish, b 1847 Chirk, Denbighshire, Wales, who happens to be my direct line. I opened the certificate today with much excitement! Guess what? No father is listed . It lists Athalia Parish as the mother and the father is left blank. Perhaps I am never to know who the father was? That fact may have been buried long long ago and will never resurface. My other option is to spend a further $70 Australian dollars on the certificates of the other two siblings. They may show the same thing as the one I already have. There may have been 3 different fathers? Do you think there were prostitutes in small mining Welsh towns with a population at the time of around 1500? Or perhaps it was an immaculate conception (or three ). I was jealous of all the black sheep I had read about on this site, and now I might have one of my own!

  2. #2
    Geoffers
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    You may never know the answer as to who the father was, but it is worth looking at a few things:

    1. Check parish records, or if she was non-conformist the records of that church. Did a curious cleric insist on recording the father or record gossip in the end pages of the register? (Bless those clerics who did!)

    2. Did she apply for out-relief, or ever enter a workhouse? - and if so is she menioned in surviving records? Do they mention a father?

    3. Yes there were prostitutes and it is open-minded of you to accept that as a possibility. It might be worth checking the local record office to see if they have any police/court records and whether there is any sort of an index to them. If the records office does not hold the records, perhaps the local police force does? They won't identify the father, but may provide confirmation of her occupation.

    4.Who was living near to the family in 1841 and 1851? She may possibly have grown up with a young lad who became the father of her children - perhaps he died, or maybe he was on the wrong side of the Law and been carted off to the clink?

  3. #3
    A fountain of knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by *bunty* View Post
    My other option is to spend a further $70 Australian dollars on the certificates of the other two siblings.
    I am surprised that you are paying $A70 or 32.55 for two certificates. Are you ordering from the GRO online at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ or are you going through a local agent who is charging an inflated price?
    The basic price of a UK certificate from the GRO is 7.00 or $A15, and I would not expect postage to more than double the cost of the certificate.

  4. #4
    Famous for offering help & advice SBSFamilyhistory's Avatar
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    Overseas

    GRO Reference Supplied

    Full Certificate of birth marriage and death (standard service): 7.00 each
    Full Certificate of birth marriage and death (priority service): 23.00 each
    Standard service certificates will be despatched within 4 days (excluding weekends and bank holidays). Priority service certificates will be despatched on the next day (excluding weekends and bank holidays).

    Where an incorrect GRO reference is supplied a search fee will be charged and the balance refunded to the card details provided. A search fee of 3.00 will apply.

    GRO Reference Not Supplied

    Full Certificate of birth marriage and death (standard service) 10.00 each
    Full Certificate of birth marriage and death (priority service) 26.00 each
    The fee includes a search of the GRO Overseas indexes for the entry required. General Register Office staff will carry out this search.

    Standard service certificates will be despatched within 5 days (excluding weekends and bank holidays). Priority service certificates will be despatched on the next day (excluding weekends and bank holidays).

    Where an entry cannot be located agreeing with the particulars supplied a search fee will be charged and the balance refunded to the card details provided. A search fee of 4.50 will apply.


    Sue

  5. #5
    Valued member of Brit-Gen. *bunty*'s Avatar
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    My apologies, that was actually a typo . I think I would go broke spending $70 on two certificates .

    I noticed on the marriage certificate of said Charles Parish that his father is listed as William Jones. This is who his mother Athalia later married when her children were pre teens. On one census listing the three Parish brothers are shown as the step sons of William Jones. I guess that is why his name is on one of the marriage certificates? They never took on his surname Jones, and remained as Parish (although of course Athalia changed her name). What I find interesting also is that I have just received transcripts of the Chirk Parish registers, and the birth of Athalia's first son John is shown. Where the father's name would be, there is just a long dash. Although other entries where there is no father listed have 'ill s' or 'ill d' for illegitimate, it is not beside John's name.

    Geoffers, thanks for the tips . I will contact the local records office and see if there is anything they have. You never know!

  6. #6
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    She just might have choosen not to marry-it happened more frequently then than we were led to believe.
    Especially in my Rural lines & also the weavers.I guess they were happy for the extra pairs of hands.
    Single parenthood with several different Fathers is not a modern day invention.
    Then considering the expense of paying for a Marriage it all makes sense to me.
    Maybe mine were just "thrawn" & preffered to go their own way.

  7. #7
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    My husband has an ancestor who appears to have had 4 children out of wedlock. The first was born when she was 21, three years after the death of her mother, the rest at 24, 29 and 32. Her father (with whom she lived) died two years later aged 72 and she had no more children and never married. The children were all brought up with the neighbour's children as one big family, so I doubt she was scorned as a "fallen woman".

    I am probably reading too much into all this, but it does seem odd.

  8. #8

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    Hello!

    I was wondering if you were still active on this website?

    I actually grew up in chirk and my grandmother’s maiden name is Parrish, from Athalia Parrish’s family. Did you find any more information as I might have some info! Probably not what you’re going to expect.. if you’re still active let us know and I’ll post a link

  9. #9

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    www.google.
    co.uk/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/john-prescott-learns-incest-among-2073091.amp
    Last edited by Lesley Robertson; 15-05-2020 at 6:08 PM. Reason: active url broken as per our TOC

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