Hi Artemas
If only............. This family of Warrens has been haunting me for months. I just cannot work out where they fit in although I am sure there must be some connection somewhere as they all live in Stonham Earl. He does not appear to be a sibling to my Thomas so I suspect a cousin. That William does not appear as a Stonham Earl baptism.
I am going to try and get together with Tim (above) via emails and shared data to get to the bottom of this. Hopefuly his Henley connections will lead us in the right direction.
I will certainly let you know if I solve the puzzle. It is a bit of a nightmare at the moment but hey...... a puzzle is always there to be solved!
regards
Marj.
Results 41 to 50 of 50
Thread: Warren family
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18-11-2008, 2:27 AM #41
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- Sep 2007
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- Victoria, Australia
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- 997
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09-02-2013, 7:21 PM #42sparklingsilverGuest
Well a little late but hopefully not too late. I am a new member to the forum although an old hand at genealogy. I thought you might be interested in the following: my 3rd Gt. grandparents, Charles and Martha Garrard nee Gowing/Gowen, came from Wetheringsett cum Brockford, Suffolk. Charles in his will includes detail of his wheelwright workshop in the occupation of Thomas Warren. I have not followed this up but suspect Thomas was related to Charles.
His niece Maria Garrard (daughter of his brother William) married Thomas Warren of Stonham Earl on 17 Oct 1793 at Wetheringsett. There are no children recorded at Wetheringsett – did they simply move on marriage to Stonham Earl. The other interesting thing is that another brother, John Garrard, married for a second time on 28 Dec 1789 Mary Hayward. On 5th Dec 1786 John died and his widow, Mary nee Hayward, on 20 Sep 1787 married John's brother William Garrard, widower (Maria Garrard's father). Talk about keeping it in the family. If any thing of this means any thing to you I would be delighted to know.
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10-02-2013, 2:22 AM #43
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Hi Sparkling Silver
Yes, I would absolutely say this infomation does mean something to me, in fact quite a lot!
Thomas and Maria did in fact return to Earl Stonham where my great, great grandfather William Warren was baptized 16th novenber 1794.
Thomas and Maria had nine children born in Earl Stonham. The sons were all Wheelwrights Blacksmsiths or Carpenters.
I am extremely interested in the will you mention naming Thomas. I wonder if Thomas was in fact only renting the Wheelwright shop or did have some connection to Charles. In any event he did marry his daughter Maria. I would love to read the whole context of the will which mentions Thomas if it is possible.
Recently I have been thrown into some confusion over Thomas and his parents but this information could help to clarify the situation. I would greatly appreciate any and all comments.
I have Thomas born in Earl Stonham about 1758 with a sister Elizabeth born 1759. Their mother Elizabeth Marsh dies 1766 and father Thomas marries second wife Martha Palmer 1767.
I have a resettlement notice regarding Thomas (listed as a school master) Martha ,Thomas and Elizabeth to travel to Debenham from Framlingham. Was Thomas senior therefore the responsibility of Framlingham and not Earl Stonham where he was married? I can find no baptism for Thomas senior in Earl Stonham.
I have burial for Thomas Senior in Debenham 4th July 1807 and Martha 11th December 1804.
I have will of Thomas Senior where he is willing practically everything to a nephew (relation of Martha) who is a school master! His son Thomas receives a very smalll amount of money and a share of his clothes with the nephew.
My problem with all this is if Thomas senior was a school master would it be feasible that his only son was both a wheelwright and also illiterate?
Possibly your information could explain this mystery.
Maybe Thomas junior was related to Charles Garrard and it was through him he learnt the wheelwright trade at a young age and he and his school master father were not on close terms. If education was not actually compulsory maybe Thomas decided that working in a trade was more in his interest than book learning.
Incidentally Maria did sign her name on her marriage day although Thomas signed with a cross.
I would love to hear more about this situation and will also attempt to look into a possible connection of both families. Thank you so much for your contribution.
Marj.
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10-02-2013, 8:08 PM #44sparklingsilverGuest
Family Affairs - Warren/Garrard
Hello Marj,
I am delighted to have news of Maria and Thomas and their children. Unfortunately, I do not believe the will of Charles Garrard can help you clarify the Warren situation. The wheelwright premises at Beccles owned by Charles were either rented by Thomas or he worked for Charles. Unfortunately, whatever the situation it is not made clear in the will. However, you are more than welcome to have a copy. I will look it out tomorrow - old files and it will do me good to dig a little since I can hardly get into my computer room for boxes of files.
I would love to have details of Thomas and Maria's children at Earl Stonham if possible. Families did move around the different villages in the area but if they fell on hard times they were removed back to the village/town which the family was originally identified with. I assume it is possible that Maria's children have left descendants at Beccles.
Maria's parents are William (Charles Garrard’s brother) and Frances Garrard nee Aldrich who married at Wetheringsett cum Brockford on 19th Feb, 1771. They had six children: Frances bp: 22 Jun 1772; Maria bp: 3 Dec 1773; Susanna bp: 21 May 1775; Elizabeth bp: 31 Dec 1776; John bp: 10 Jun 1778; and Sophia bp: 25 Feb 1781. Their mother, Frances, was buried at Wetheringsett on 19 Jul 1786. When Maria’s sister, Frances, marred John Bilneys of Linsteed on 12 May 1794 her grandmother,
Elizabeth Garrard nee Tye (bp: 17 Oct 1723; buried on 13 Nov 1804, aged 81) signed the entry as a witnesses.
Incidentally, how am I going to send you a copy of the will?
Valerie.
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11-02-2013, 12:42 AM #45
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- Sep 2007
- Location
- Victoria, Australia
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- 997
Hi again Valerie
Well one never knows what a new day will bring!!
I am so delighted to receive all your information regarding my previously unknown 4x great grandparents and even my 5xgreat grandmother! Thank you so much.
Thomas and Maria named their last child Frances Elizabeth so it is clear now where that came from!
I am particularly interested by your reference to Beccles. Was the wheelwright shop which was mentioned in the will actually in Beccles, Wetheringsett or Earl Stonham. The reason I ask is that my great great grandfather William (First born of Thomas and Maria) moved to the wheelwright shop in Beccles after his marriage and my great grandfather was born there. Such an interesting story and sad. I have serached for the death of William for ages and just found that he was drowned in the river at Beccles in 1843.
A kind gentleman in Beccles recently sent me a read out on the past owners of the Wheelwright shop, I must dig it out. I have recently changed computers and a lot is stored on my old computer which takes quite a while to access.
If you do not think that the will gives me any new information please don't spend the time sending it. However if it is the wheelwright shop in Beccles it may show some little hint on why William moved there. I thought it may be a Warren connection but perhaps not!
I want to send you all I have on Thomas and Maria so will do so off line... If you go to my profile you can send me an email message which will then in turn show your email address. (I think that is the correct procedure) That way we can exchange emails with all the relevant details. I have such a lot on the children of Thomas and Maria which may interest you.
Regards
Marj.
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11-02-2013, 8:36 AM #46
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- Sep 2007
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- Victoria, Australia
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- 997
Just an additonal piece of information
I have found the information given me by a helpful gentleman in Beccles. Here is the history of the Wheelwright shop in Smallgate street whihc begins in 1698
Here are the dates which concern our ancestors
1830 Charles Garrod, wheelwright, [died 1834] house & premises on west side of Smallgate,
late Robert Beane (later C Cheston) Rent 8d 1/2d
1835 Charles Cheston, one of executors of Charles Garrard, deceased, house on west side of
Smallgate late Robert Beane Rent 8d 1/2
1837 William Pidgeon of Worlingham, wheelwright, , house on west side of Smallgate late
Charles Garrard, before Robert Beane Rent 8d 1/2
1839 William Warren, wheelwright, house on west side of Smallgate, late William Pidgeon,
formerly Charles Garrard, before Robert Beane Rent 8d 1/2d
1844 Norwich Mercury 2 Mar SALE of Premises in Smallgate, William Warren, Gig maker & Wheelwright.
1844 Charles Chinery, (1771- 1854) farmer, house on west side of Smallgate, late William Warren,
formerly William Pidgeon, Charles Garrard
So William was actually the one who took over the shop not Thomas.......Thomas was already well settled in Earl Stonham in 1834. I wonder why Thomas was mentioned in the will ánd where Charles Cheston comes in all this?
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17-02-2014, 11:42 AM #47
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- Feb 2014
- Location
- Surrey England
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- 6
Thomas/Elizabeth Warren 1760's
A friend has traced my family back to the above. This information would appear to relate to the facts set out in Post 953 September 2007 by Dargie. If this is the case we are related way back at Earl Stonham! Would be very pleased to hear from anyone interested. Clivekw
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18-02-2014, 8:54 AM #48
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- Sep 2007
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- Victoria, Australia
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- 997
Hello Clivekw
I am so thrilled to hear from you. I would love to know what information you have on this family.
If you would like to private message me I will return the email with all that have.
You will see by post 43 above that I have great confusion about this family.
I have always felt sure that my Thomas is the son of the Thomas and Elizabeth you mention but the birthdate according to his death certificate is 1764 not 1758. I have the will belonging to your Thomas and as mentioned he was a school teacher and it seems strange that his son, my ancestor, would be a wheelwright. However it could be correct as Thomas left his son Thomas 10 pounds and a share in his old clothes! The house, grounds and all other assets went to his nephew, by his second wife Martha. The nephew was also a school teacher so possibly my Thomas as a wheelwright was not a favourite!
Another problem is that my Thomas signed his marriage certificate with a cross and that seems to be quite strange if his father was a school teacher.
My Thomas did come from Earl Stonham at time of his marriage but as Suffolk Sue pointed out that may not mean he was actually baptized there.
I am hoping your research may throw a little light on the subject! I do hope you have some wheelwrights on your side of the tree?
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24-04-2020, 3:10 PM #49
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- Apr 2020
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- Melbourne
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- 1
Hi team... Sorry to revive such an old thread but I’m descended from Thomas Warren and Maria Garrad.
Bitzar,
Melbourne.
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26-04-2020, 11:13 AM #50
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- Feb 2014
- Location
- Surrey England
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- 6
I am descended from Thomas Warren and Elizabeth Marsh and have been unable to go back further. They are the parents of the Thomas Warren that you have mentioned. There is a doubt to this statement as the Thomas Warren b circa 1732 was a schoolmaster and his Son Thomas b about 1758 signed his marriage certificate to Maria Gerrard with an 'X'. I have recently had correspondence with a person who stated that they are aware, from research, that certain Vicars in bygone days, would sign marriage certificates with a 'X', prior to the ceremony!
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