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  1. #11

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    so base born means there is no father named and illegitimate means that there is a father named but not married to the mother...

    I don't think the ministers of the time were that pernickety. I think they wrote whatever they felt was an accurate description - and possibly the one that would bring the greatest shame on the woman and the child. They were very christian these old ministers sometimes...

    I read it first as meaning that base meant no father and thought, how did she do that then? if you see what I mean
    Sadly, our dear friend Ann (alias Ladkyis) passed away on Thursday, 26th. December, 2019.
    Footprints on the sands of time

  2. #12
    v.wells
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladkyis View Post

    I read it first as meaning that base meant no father and thought, how did she do that then? if you see what I mean
    That is something I thought too! Great minds think alike

  3. #13
    Guy Etchells
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    They both me the same.
    One reason for the use of different terms in parish registers written in the same hand is very basic.

    All (or at least the majority) of parish register entries should be transcripts.

    The various events are first recorded in a day book, then at the end of the week the events of the week were transcribed into the parish register.

    The 70th. Canon in 1603 puts it this way

    “In every Parish Church and Chapel within this Realm shall be provided one Parchment Book at the charge of the Parish, wherein shall be written the day and year of every Christening, Wedding, and Burial which have been in that Parish since the time that the Law was first made in that behalf, so far as the ancient Books thereof can be procured, but especially since the beginning of the Reign of the late Queen. And for the safe keeping of the said Book the Churchwardens at the charge of the Parish shall provide one sure Coffer with three Locks and Keys whereof the one to remain with the Minister and the other two with the Churchwardens severally so that neither the Minister without the two Churchwardens, nor the Churchwardens without the Minister shall at any time take that
    Book out of the said Coffer. And henceforth upon every Sabbath Day immediately after Morning or Evening Prayer the Minister and Churchwardens shall take the said Parchment Book out of the said Coffer, and the Minister in the presence of the Churchwardens shall write and record in the said Book the names of all persons christened together with the names and surnames of their parents, and also the names of all Persons married and buried in that Parish, in the week before, and the day and year of every such Christening, Marriage and Burial. And that done they shall lay up that Book in the Coffer as before;"
    Cheers
    Guy

  4. #14
    Guy Etchells
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    Here are a few terms used in Parish Registers-

    bastard, base, baseborn, illegitimate, spurious, by-blow, natural, love-child, love-begotten, misbegotten, chance begot, chance child, merrily begotten, merrybegot, baseborn, begotten in fornication, a by-blow, child of shame, lovechild, misbegotten, a scape-begotten child, whoreson, child of a harlot.

    In Latin there are filius nullius (son of none), filius populi (son of the people), filius meretricis (son of a prostitute).
    Cheers
    Guy

  5. #15
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    My husband's great great grandmother was baptised with her father's surname in 1815 in Durness, Sutherland but the minister took great delight in entering Born in Adultery with [mother's name]. I could really hear that Highland rolled R in BORRRN
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  6. #16
    billysax
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rove View Post
    Does anyone know what term is used in other countries ?

    And when a registration is done in an RC church ?
    As a sacristan at my RC Parish church, one of my duties is to complete the Baptismal Register, with details supplied by the Parents or Parent, ready for the Priest to sign. In many cases the parents names are different. Sometimes only the Mother's name is supplied. There is never any mention of a child being "baseborn" "illegitimate" or any other term which may apply.

  7. #17
    Guy Etchells
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    That may be the case now but was certainly not in the past.
    Woolston Registers 1810 -
    "September 16th was christened Ann Harrison a natural child of Mary Harrison. Hamlet Norris was the father. Old Mary Harrison stood Godmother. It had no Godfather."
    9 entries later-
    1812
    February 2nd was christened Wm Litherland, natural Child of Jane Litherland. Sponsores, Ann Cadwell, Daughter of Joseph Caldwell & Richard Hamlets.
    June 7th was christened Moyses Litherland, natural child of Alice Litherland. Godmother, Anne Charnock.

    What must never be forgotten with parish registers is the importance of a bastard child being entered as a bastard child.
    This was not (in most cases) done to embarrass anyone but to aid the child.
    If the parish register did not show the infant as a bastard he/she could not claim that parish as their parish of settlement and could be shipped out.
    Cheers
    Guy

  8. #18
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    Also under the eyes of the law, if the parents subsequently married after the birth of an illegitimate child, then the child still remained illegitimate, even if it took its fathers name. Sometimes, it wasnt always the natural father the woman married, but in most cases it probably was.

    As said, if the new husband then baptised the child as his natural child eg "Son of John and Mary Smith", then it is almost probable that he was the real father of the illegitimate child. That can be a vital clue in helping prove if the new husband was the child's father.

  9. #19
    Geoffers
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    Quote Originally Posted by coseley
    I subscribe to Ancestry.co.uk and suddenly thought to ask their solutions people if they could help with this. They tell me that "base" is the child of a single woman and "illegitimate" is a child born to an unmarried couple.
    I think it is wrong for them to have given such advice. Descriptions used depend on local custom, period in time, preference of the cleric who maintained the register.

    I found the letter P and on the transcribed parish entry P is Vital.
    It could mean 'pauper', but what date is the entry? How many entries have the letter 'P' so appended? Is the letter written in the same handwriting and probably contemporary to the original entry - or has it been added later?

  10. #20
    MarkJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffers View Post
    I think it is wrong for them to have given such advice. Desciptions used depend on local custom, period in time, preference of the cleric who maintained the register.

    Quite right Geoffers. To claim that base means one thing and illegitimate means another is complete hogwash.
    As you say, it seems to be purely down to the person recording the baptism and their views on such matters. A quick look around various registers will leave you in no doubt that the parish priest will often use many terms - sometimes even depending on whether this is the first or second child for example! In some rural parishes, you can get a "feel" for the vicars views on the mothers conduct by what he writes Some just use one word for all - be that base, illegitimate, bastard or their own "pet" term, others seem to vary.

    Mark

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