Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Bitza
    Guest

    Default Kirk session records

    Can anyone help with Kirk session records?

    I have a number of queries that I would like help with. I know that there is an entry for one member of my ancestry as I ave found it on the dumgal web site but I would love to see the whole entry if that is possible.

    Any advice?

  2. #2
    Mary Young
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bitza View Post
    Can anyone help with Kirk session records? I know that there is an entry for one member of my ancestry as I ave found it on the dumgal web site but I would love to see the whole entry if that is possible.
    Hi, Bitza
    You have stumped me with "Dumgal" is it a place in Kirkcudbrightshire. Could you copy and paste the website address here so we can have a look? Then perhaps we can find more detail for you.
    Last edited by Mary Young; 10-09-2007 at 10:49 PM. Reason: misunderstood original post

  3. #3
    Bitza
    Guest

    Default

    Hi Mary

    Sorry about that here's the link:

    www.
    dumgal.gov.uk/

    It is the Dumfries and Galloway Council's web site but it also has a number of Kirk Sessions and the 1851 census records. I have just had a quick look and unfortunately the site is now under reconstruction, but the entry that I am interested in is this one:

    Date: 29 June 1784
    Name: McKIE , James
    Trade: servant
    Place: Carruchan, Troqueer
    Topic: named as the father of Jean Tait's child; matter referred to Mr Ewart, the minister of Troqueer
    Notes: illegitimacy
    Archive Ref: CH2/537/8
    Page(s): 334

    I would be grateful if you could help. James and Jean were my 5 x great grandparents.

    Bitza
    Last edited by Bitza; 11-09-2007 at 7:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Mary Young
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bitza View Post
    It is the Dumfries and Galloway Council's web site
    Doh! That never occured to me.
    Date: 29 June 1784
    Name: McKIE , James
    Trade: servant
    Place: Carruchan, Troqueer
    Topic: named as the father of Jean Tait's child; matter referred to Mr Ewart, the minister of Troqueer
    Notes: illegitimacy
    Archive Ref: CH2/537/8
    Page(s): 334
    I agree it would be nice to see the entry but I doubt if you'd learn more.
    Apparently this Minute Book is not at National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh; their on-line catalogue reports "CH2/537/8 - Minutes - 1776-1785 - Not held".
    I suggest you email NAS via https://www.nas.gov.uk/, they should be able to supply its location.

  5. #5
    Bitza
    Guest

    Default

    Thanks Mary you've been most helpful.

    Do you know which records are held in Edinburgh? I have another ancestor who was born in 1841 in Rerrick, Kirkcudbright who was also illegitimate and I have not been able to trace anything birth or baptism records on her. As I understand Scottish law at that time she would not have been able to baptise her child if she refused to name the father, is this correct?

    Also, is there any record of irregular marriages? I am interested to find one for a family member on my husband's side, according to his WWI pension records they married in Hamilton in 1889, but there is no record of their marriage and the story passed down through the family is that they ran away to Scotland and married by "jumping over the table"?

    Bitza

  6. #6
    Mary Young
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bitza View Post
    Do you know which records are held in Edinburgh?
    National Archives of Scotland https://www.nas.gov.uk/ click on "Online Catalogue" in right-hand column. Put Rerrick in the search field, you should get 5 pages of results. Even scanning the titles, you just might find an interesting name. Unfortunately they are having problems, so In case you can't get in, here are the Kirk Session details. They are all marked "Open" so can be accessed on-site. Applications for baptism are usually in the Minute Books.
    CH2 = Church records. 311=Rerrick.
    CH2/311 Rerrick Kirk Session 1751-1977
    CH2/311/1 Rerrick Kirk Session: Minutes (and other items) 1751-1792
    CH2/311/2 Rerrick Kirk Session: Minutes (and other items) 1903-1940
    CH2/311/3 Rerrick Kirk Session: Rerrick Friendly Society: Minutes (with some accounts) 1812-1832
    CH2/311/4 Rerrick Kirk Session: Cash 1812-1885
    CH2/311/5 Rerrick Kirk Session: Rerrick Savings Bank: Minutes (with accounts) 1832-1898
    CH2/311/6 Rerrick Kirk Session: Minutes 1899-1927
    CH2/311/7 Rerrick Kirk Session: Minutes 1911-1925
    CH2/311/8 Rerrick Kirk Session: Minutes 1914-1926
    CH2/311/9 Rerrick Kirk Session: Ledger 1898-1925
    CH2/311/10 Rerrick Kirk Session: Poor fund and minute book 1793-1830
    CH2/311/11 Rerrick Kirk Session: Minute book 1827-1870
    CH2/311/12 Rerrick Kirk Session: Minute book1870-1950
    CH2/311/13 Rerrick Kirk Session: Poors' fund book1830-1846
    CH2/311/14 Rerrick Kirk Session: Communion roll book 1876-1901
    CH2/311/15 Rerrick Kirk Session: Communion roll book 1901-1914
    CH2/311/16 Rerrick Kirk Session: Communion roll book 1915-1938
    CH2/311/17 Rerrick Kirk Session: Communion roll book 1939-1969
    CH2/311/18 Rerrick Kirk Session: Proclamation register 1879-1964
    CH2/311/19 Rerrick Kirk Session: Proclamation register 1965-1977
    As I understand Scottish law at that time she would not have been able to baptise her child if she refused to name the father
    Not law of Scotland, but Church rules and practice. They were very reluctant to baptise unless the father was named, and if he was local they might insist on him acknowledging his fault. I know one case where the "reputed father" was summoned every year to the Kirk Session. The first few years he attended but refused to admit fatherhood. After that he point-blank refused to attend. The child was eventually baptised when she was 10 yrs old!
    Have you Googled thoroughly for Rerrick? It's likely someone, somewhere has transcribed some of the Kirk Session Records, or at least cherry-picked the interesting bits!
    I don't know much about irregular marriages, especially as late as 1889. Maybe the date is wrong. Men are hopeless are remembering dates.
    Or perhaps they never married. He would name his "wife" so she could get the allowance (only paid to mother or wife).
    Can you tell us the names? Are they in 1891 and 1901 census?

  7. #7
    Bitza
    Guest

    Default

    That's fantastic Mary, I will be visiting Edinburgh in November so I will at least have an idea of what to look for when I get there.

    With regards to the irregular marriage, the names of the people involved are John Tuke and Mary Wills. John was born in Ireland in 1866 and Mary 1867 in Cornwall. Mary moved to Cumberland by the 1881 census and was working as a servant, we presume this is how she met John as he was living in Cumberland also. By 1891 they are living in Yorkshire as man and wife and live next door to John's parents. By 1901 Mary is back in Cumberland on her own with her children as John was away with the Army (or possibly hiding as he did desert the army at some point which is recorded in his records!)

    I am of the opinion now that they did not marry legally, as they never hid the fact to family, their children were all told this jumping the table story.

  8. #8
    Mary Young
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bitza View Post
    I will be visiting Edinburgh in November
    Hi, Bitza
    It would be wise to email NAS asap - ask how those records are stored and how they can be viewed. AFAIK the Church minute books are all at Register House (as opposed to New Register House). However, it's possible the Rerrick books are in storage, you might have to order them up before you visit. On a brighter note you might be lucky and find they have already been digitised viewable on computer.
    Although there is a charge to visit New Register House, The records held in Register House are free to view.
    With regards to the irregular marriage, the names of the people involved are John Tuke and Mary Wills. John was born in Ireland in 1866 and Mary 1867 in Cornwall.
    Is this the family in Stanley 1891 with 3 little girls? John Tuke age 24, not born Ireland but "Lee Fair, Yorkshire". His father John Tuke, born Ireland, and his sister, Susan age 14, born "Hobart Town, Scotland". I've never heard of those places!
    I can't see them running off to Scotland in 1889 for an irregular marriage when they already had one child. Perhaps they were in Hamilton anyway and just felt in the mood for table jumping

  9. #9
    Bitza
    Guest

    Default

    Hi Mary

    Yes that's the family!! For some reason in all the census records John has put his birth place as Yorkshire and was only until recently, when I received some information about his father from the County Wicklow Heritage Centre that we realised he was actually born in Ireland. We knew his parents had returned to Wicklow for a visit, but did not know that John was born and baptised there too. We now have the transcripts to prove it! Susan was actually born in Overtown, Lanark.

    John and Mary's first child was illegitimate, again this was no secret within the family although she did tell everyone she was only 14 when she had her!!

    There have been a lot of stories that my husband's family have been told about his ancestors that I have unfortunately disproved whilst researching the family tree one of them was that we were related to Jack Dempsy the famous boxer!! Another was that the Tuke's were ship builders back in Ireland!! To date I have not been able to find any evidence of this. It would seem that they were all miners.

    The Tuke's were living in Lethan Hill in 1871, when John Jnr was a child and they had a half brother, William who remained in Scotland when they left.

    The Tuke's seemed to move around the country often until eventually the 2 brothers, Charles and John settled in Cumberland in the early 1900's.

    Thank you for the advice about the records, I will do that on Monday. I suppose the marriage (or not) of John and Mary will remain a mystery.

    Bitza

  10. #10
    Mary Young
    Guest

    Default

    Hi, Bitza
    You are so fortunate to have all those family stories - true or not!
    Good luck with your visit to Edinburgh.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Select a file: