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  1. #1
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    Default Turner of Glenlivet or Inveravon

    Can anyone help locate the birth of Isabella Bremner nee Turner please?

    The information I have is:

    b. 1835-1836 ( from death entry - father's surname Turner, mothers maiden surname McDonald - though informant was grandson so maybe not accurate)
    1901 census: aged 67 so born 1833-1834 Glenlivet, Banffshire
    1891 census: aged 56 so born 1834-1835 Inveravon, Banffshire
    1881 census: aged 47 so born 1833-1834 Inveravon, Banffshire
    1871 census aged 37 so born 1833-1834 Inveravon, Banffshire
    1861 census aged 27 so born 1833-1834 Inveravon, Banffshire

    Birth of second child in 1855: aged 22 so born 1833-1834

    Isabella Turner married John Bremner at Inveravon in 1853 and was of the parish of Inveravon, residing at Clashnoir.

    However a search of the OPR Birth indexes at Scotland's People does not come up with any matches.

    A search of the 1851 census gives one Isabela Turner aged 18, daughter of James Turner (widow) a shepherd. In 1841 James only has one child living with him: William aged 11. However, a search of wills shows that James died 1857 (Farmer at Craighead Morage, Inveravon) followed by Isabella (daughter of James Turner, Farmer at Morange, Inveravon) in 1861. William also appears to have died in 1861. So this Isabella Turner can not be my ancestor who married John Bremner.

    So, I did wonder whether Isabella had been born illigitimate and registered under her mother's maiden name of McDonald. In Inveravon in 1841 there is an Isabella McDonald aged 5, living with Isabella Green (aged 45). But Isabella Green had married Lewis McDonald in 1833 ( Scottish women often used their maiden surname in census which can be a bit confusing!) And Isabel McDonald was born 19th Jan 1834, daughter of Lewis McDonald and Isabel Green. So this Isabel wasn't illigitimate. So again, this one doesn't fit.

    I also can't find a McDonald/Turner marriage.

    Are there any other records, maybe non-conformist that are not on Scotland's People? I did read on GenUki that Glenlivet was mainly Catholic - so maybe the Turner family were Catholic. Any ideas where these records may be?

    Thanks
    Michelle

  2. #2

    Smile Isabella Turner Clashnoir

    Just got back from Glenlivet.My Turners are as follows ;Isabella Turner b1767 d1835 (nee McPherson )Married John Turner b1776. they had 6 chidren Ann John James Elizabeth and Isabella b1815 (Think she had a son James Stuart b appx 1841) and she did have (got b cert) William Stuart b1843 On the cert it says the father was William Stuart b1817 Blacksmith , cant as yet find a marriage cert !.William b1843 married Ann Grant and had 5 children,they lived in Chapletown.( appx 1 )mile from Clashnoir. Arcot

  3. #3
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    Default Turner/McDonald Inveravon

    It has been a couple of years, and now Scotlands People have added the Catholic Baptisms, I thought I'd have another attempt at trying to find my Isabella Turner.

    Ascot, It looks like your Turners are probably related to my Isabella. As yet, I still can not find any hard documented evidence to link my Isabella in. However, I think I have a lot of circumstantial evidence now.

    Going back to my original post, I initially ruled out Isabella daughter of James, as there is a will/inventory of James Turner (farmer of Morange, Inveravon) in 1857, followed by a Will/Inventory of Isabella Turner (daughter of James Turner, farmer of Morange, Inveravon) in 1861.

    However, I suspect this may have been a different James Turner.

    The James and Isabella in 1851 census was at "Glencimma" and this James was a shepherd, not a farmer.

    I can only find one McDonald/Turner "union" in the area.

    In 1841 Census at "Nethertown" Inveravon:

    Thomas McDonald b. 1773
    Margaret McDonald b. 1774
    Isabella McDonald b. 1811
    Elizabeth McDonald b. 1815
    Jane McDonald b. 1821
    Margaret Turner b. 1825
    Christian Turner (Female) b. 1829
    Thomas Turner b. 1836


    In 1851 census at "Nether Achdregnie" Inveravon:

    Thomas McDonald b. 1772 (farmer of 150 Acres employing 6 Labourers)
    Margaret McDonald b. 1772
    Isabela McDonald b. 1805
    Elisabeth McDonald b. 1816
    Thomas Turner b. 1836
    + 9 other people all listed as servants, but I believe to be a mix of staff and relatives

    In 1851 census Christin Turner is a servant at "Lagnel" Inveravon

    In 1861 Will/Inventory of Thomas McDonald is proved (stating death date of 26 Sep 1859)

    In will is mentioned Wife Margaret Grant, daughters Isabella & Elizabeth McDonald, married daughters Jean wife of James Grant, Barbara wife of William Robertson, sons John & James McDonald and grandchildren: John Grant, Thomas Robertson & Thomas Turner.

    However there is no mention of his grand daughters Margaret Turner and Christin/Chrstian/Christina. ( I was hoping to have Isabella mentioned!)

    I assumed he didn't list Christina as she may have already died.

    However, I found she had actually married Alexander Gordon 1851-1853 (not in parish registers so possibly Catholic) and died in 1899 at "Lagual" Glenlivat. Daughter of James Turner (Shepherd) and MarjoryTurner nee McDonald.

    So maybe her grandfather just didn't mention any grandaughters for some reason.

    I found Margaret McDonald died 1858 at "Auchdregnie" age 85 ( d. of John Grant & Isabella Grant nee Robertson) buried in graveyard at Tombae

    Thomas Turner died 1859 at "Auchdregnie" aged 23 (s. James Turner and May Turner nee McDonald) buried in Churchyard at ChapelTown

    Thomas MacDonald died 1859 at "Auchdregnie" age 87 (s. Alexander MacDonald & Margaret MacDonald nee Stewart) buried in Churchyard of Tombay (sic)

    Elizabeth McDonald died 1866 at "Auchdregnie" age 55 (d. of Thomas McDonald & Margaret McDonald nee Grant)

    all registered by John McDonald.

    Looks like Catholics were a bit hit and miss with their baptisms (or some records are missing from Scotland's people)

    A search of the catholic baptisms only give:

    Alexander McDonald b. 1815 s. of Thomas McDonald and Margaret Grant at Tombae, The Incarnation
    John McDonald b. 1817 s. of Thomas McDonald and Margaret Grant at Tombae, The Incarnation


    John Turner b. 1821 s. James Turner & Marjory McDonald at Tombae, The Incarnation
    Margaret Turner b. 1824 d. James Turner & Marjory McDonald at Tombae, The Incarnation
    Christina Turner bap. 1826 d. James Turner & Marjory McDonald at Tombae, The Incarnation
    Thomas Turner b. 1834 s. James Turner & May McDonald at Chapeltown, Our Lady of Perpetual Succour
    Thomas Turner b. 1836 s. s. James Turner & Marjory McDonald at Chapeltown, Our Lady of Perpetual Succour

    So there is a gap between 1826 and 1834 when my Isabella may have been born to James and Marjory/May.

    Thanks to anyone who has managed to wade through all this!

    Any suggestions as to where to look next would be appreciated!
    Michelle

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkes_ml View Post
    So there is a gap between 1826 and 1834 when my Isabella may have been born to James and Marjory/May.

    Thanks to anyone who has managed to wade through all this!

    Any suggestions as to where to look next would be appreciated!
    Blimey Michelle, your Isabella is as bad as my Thomas Blacklock .

    My only suggestion, I'm afraid, is to look in the cabinet to see if you have any of Glenlivet's rather more well known product
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

  5. #5
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    Default

    I'm wondering if that may have been the problem! Living in an area where they were surrounded by distillaries, maybe they had a bit too much to drink and forgot to baptize the children and were to fuddled to remember which ones had or hadn't been baptized!!!
    Michelle

  6. #6
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    I may be grasping at straws here, but using FreeCen next household feature, you can look at the neighbours.

    In 1841 :Thomas & Margaret McDonald, and Christian Turner (age 12), Margaret Turner (16) & Thomas Turner (12)

    Next door on one side is John & Janet McDonald, on the other side is James & Ann McDonald and living with them is Christian Turner (age 9).

    It is highly unlikely that there are 2 Christian Turners living next door to each other, so I suspect James & Ann (probably on the whiskey) actually had their niece Isabella living with them, and not Christian! Isabella Turner would have been about 8.
    Michelle

  7. #7

    Default

    I have found a fantastic Web sight Called libindex .moray.gov.uk This is the Local Heritage Centre in Elgin. It has a lot of Turners !!Hope you find the link .Arcot

  8. #8
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    Wow...now another 4 years on and I am not much further with my TURNER family. Now I have realised that the Catholic baptism marriage and burial images are now available on Scotlands People (rather than just the baptism index that was there previously when I last looked.)

    The Catholic marriage between John TURNER & Margery MCDONALD 29th August 1820 which gives the brides parent's as Thomas MCDONALD & Margaret GRANT, supporting the earlier research. However the groom's parents are not listed

    From the Moray Burial Ground website, I found the occupants of grave 009 and 011 at Chapeltown (Glenlivet) graveyard

    Grave stone 009 names:

    Thomas TURNER died 1833 age 2
    John TURNER died 1834
    Margery TURNER nee MCDONALD died 1835
    James TURNER died 1852
    Thomas TURNER died 1859

    and stone 011:

    Isabella TURNER nee MCPHERSON died 1835
    John TURNER died 1836
    John TURNER died 1867
    James TURNER died 1895
    Jane TURNER died 1897
    Isabella TURNER died 1901
    Elizabeth TURNER died 1901

    but searching both Catholic Parish Registers & Old (protestant) Parish Registers on Scotlands People for the pre 1855 deaths of the ocupants of grave 009 is coming up with nothing.....

    so 7 years on from starting to research this family, I am still not much further forward
    Michelle

  9. #9

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    It's frustrating that they don't give the ages of the people.... I'd expect more info than this, including relationships.
    It might be worth investing in one of their booklets of transcriptions?

    There's a death cert for Thomas Turner d. 1859, mother's surname MacDonald, aged 23 on SP. It says that he died in Auchbrech, Banff. If it IS him, his birth corresponds with Margery's death. I haven't gone further than the index.

    The Gazetteer for Scotland describes Auchbrech as a small settlement in Glenlivet, Moray, east of the River Livet at the junction of the B9009 and B9008, north of that favourite of the BBC winter weather forecasts, Tomintoul.

    (There's 2 other TTs died 1859 in Ayr and Wigtown, with no age or mother's surname given)

    There's only 1 TT of the right age and area in the 1841*. He's living with Margaret (16) and Christian (12) Turner, Thomas (67) & Margaret (66) McDonald and 3 McDonald females aged from 20-30. Seems possible that this is grandparents, aunts and sisters. Thomas senior is a farmer.

    *And now I see that you already had this info in message 3....

  10. #10
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    Have you checked out the 'other events' in the SP catholic records? Turners seem to be mentioned for both Glenlivet and Chapeltown. I used dates 1818- 1854. May or may not be relevant!

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