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  1. #1
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    Default more on travelling families

    want to hear from anyone connected with the Gray gypsies who travelled Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Cambridge, and to a lesser extent, Suffolk.

    Am descended from Christopher Gray b.1815 Thurlby Lincs, d.1869 Wrawby, when he was killed by a runaway horse and gig, and his wife, Maria Gray, b.1817 Willoughby Notts, daughter of William Smith (of Coleorton Leic) and Ann Elliot or Elliott (of Willoughby).

    Also descended from Thomas Smith b.circa 1825 Skillington Lin, and his wife Mary Smith b.circa 1830, nee Brown.

    Some of the Smiths married into the Grays, some the Elliotts, and some the Browns. Some of these have direct link to the Heron and Boss Pedigrees. (for instance, Stephen Smith married Isabella Pierce, dtr of Eldred Pierce).

    Eldred Pierce married into the Heron family, as did his brother Stephen, they married two sisters, Morette/Miseretta/Mretta and Tierney/Tienna Heron. A third sister, Cinderella Heron married Richard WINTER. She was born cir 1832.

    I am loosely related to the Grays of Norfolk - Founess and Constance, Oseri Gray and Eliza Heron (daughter of No Name HERON (I have seen his grave, with that of Tyso Boswell, and have newspaper reports of their deaths in 1831 at Tetford Lin, when struck by lightening.) Also related to Esther Tansey nee Gray, Genty Gray/Smith d.1918 Gorleston, Naomi Gray etc etc
    Please contact me if anything here is familiar.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Hello,

    I've been researching my OH's ancestry, and he has connections with Gray and Smith gypsies in Lincolnshire - don't recognise the names you have mentioned but though I'd post in case the names are relevant to you.

    I have Eldria(Eldery?) Gray (sometimes Mobbs) born c.1821 in Winsley, Northamptonshire and died 1862 in Lincoln who married Moses Smith who was born c.1816 in Harby, Leicestershire. Their son Rabbi Smith, born c.1855 in Nettleham, Lincs is my OH's ancestor.

    Eldria Gray is the daughter of James Gray (Mobbs), born c.1795 and Bertha Smith born c.1800 in Seaton Rutland, daughter of Wisdom and Hannah Smith.

    Also I have Sylvestia Smith, born c.1838 in Cabourne/Caistor, daughter of Dennis Smith and Eleanor Charlotte, born c.1817, Gamlingay. Eleanor's parents were John Charlotte and Sophia Smith, both of whom settled in Kirton in Lindsey.

    Any links at all?

    Jo.

  3. #3
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    Default Gray/Mobb/Smith

    Oh YES, I have researched this family.


    From what Ive been able to glean thus far James Gray b.cir 1795 married Bertha/Bethania/Bethany Smith d/o Wisdom & Hannah, b.1800 Seaton, Rutland.

    I dont know where this James came from, but he certainly went by the alias Mobbs, as did the children.

    Children I have been able to find thus far are:

    Eldria/Elderi/Elden Gray b.cir 1821 Winsley Nthants married Moses Smith c.1816 Harby Leic s/o Thomas & Sylvia.

    Joshua Gray/Mobbs b.cir 1821-30 Ingham, Lincs married Harriet b.cir 1841 Blyborough Lin.

    Righteous Gray C.1827 Elkesley Notts married Sagey Heron c.1836 Broughton Northants

    Cornelius Gray c.1827 Elkesley Notts

    Elias Gray b.cir 1844 Abbots Rippon Hunts married Amelia Heron sister of Sagey, c.1845 Haddington Nthants

    Francis Gray/Mobbs b.cir 1835 Boston Lin, married Selina b.cir 1835

    Johina Gray b.cir 1837

    Moses Gray/Mobbs c.1840 Corringham Lin married Silvia Smith c.1841 d/o Robert & Tabitha.

    It is worth adding that the latest discovery I have made is that Bethania Smith also had a liason (not uncommon in Romany circles) with William Gray c. 1791 Ashwell Hrts, who ended up with her sister, Tabitha Smith c.1803 Cropwell Bishop Northants. This William and Bethania were parents of William Gray c.1822 Ancaster Lincs who married Salome Ellen/Lumi Ellen Boyling (c.1823 Scampton).

  4. #4
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    Default next generation

    Mobbs and Grays


    Elderi Gray and Moses Smith had:

    Thomas b.cir 1840 Harby Leic married Siberamily "Sibby" Smith b.cir 1840 Northampton
    Sophia b.cir 1841 Harby Leic
    Emma b.cir 1845 Normanby Lin
    John b.cir 1850 Bishops Norton Lin
    Rabbi Smith b.cir 1857 Nettleham Lin married Deloraine or Delorina b.cir 1851 Worksop
    Sarah b.cir 1851 Willowson


    Joshua Gray/Mobbs and Harriet had:

    William b.cir 1853 Barrow Lin
    Elijah "Lasher" b.cir 1856 Rand or Stockton Lin
    Moses b.cir 1862 Barkwith Lin
    Reajiel? b.cir 1864 Mkt Rasen Lin
    Uriah b.cir 1869 Mkt Rasen Lin poss the Uriah Mobbs d.1940 Lincoln Workhouse, buried Newport Cem, married Mary Ann Wain in 1900.
    Charles b.cir 1872 Mkt Rasen
    Mary Ann b.cir 1875 Mkt Rasen


    Righteous Gray and Sagey Heron had:
    Alfred, Samuel, Nathan, Edward and Emily and settled at Kingsthorpe Nthants


    Elias Gray and Amelia had:
    Abigail b.1867 Kingsthorpe married Iza Heron s/o Isaac
    Mary b.cir 1869 Halesowen Worc married Alfred Smith
    Mizelli/Marcelli b.cir 1871 Walsall Stf
    Sunpoleon "Poley" aka George b.cir 1876 Bloxwich Stf married Jane Smith
    Matilda b.cir 1878 Walsall Stf married 1) Tom Winter b.cir 1858 Huddersfield, m1897
    and 2) Rabbi Smith b.cir 1875 Kelsale Sfk, m.1928


    Francis Gray/Mobbs and Selina had:

    Cornelius b.cir 1860 Belton Lin
    Avelin b.cir 1864 Astoft Yks (Altofts?)
    Elisha b.cir 1867 Gainsborough Lin
    Bethany b.cir 1868 Sheffield Yks
    Delarina b.cir 1869 Yorkshire


    Moses Gray/Mobbs and Sylvia Smith had:

    Righteous b.cir 1860 Gainsborough married Lucy Rodgers 1882
    Cornelius b.cir 1863 Springthorpe married Elizabeth Ellmore 1881
    Levi b.cir 1865 Lincoln married Mary Ellen Gabbitas 1886
    Mary J b.cir 1867 Tresswell Nott
    James b.cir 1870 Gainsboro d.1953 Scroby Cem Scunthorpe, married Sophia 1875-1963
    Elizabeth b.cir 1873 Gainsboro
    Florence b.cir 1875 Gainsboro

  5. #5
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    Default Smiths and Charlottes

    I dont know of this family. I do know some of the Grays used to forename Sylvest(i)a for some of their girls, so they probably knew the family involved. Doesnt help that Smith is such a common surname. The only Dennis on the IGI is one c.1820 Bourne, Cam, s/o Shadrach and Martha. But they had three children baptised in the same village. Its certainly not unheard of for that to happen, but it makes me wonder if he is the right guy.


    Have never looked into the Charlotte Family. But a quick look at the IGI reveals John Charlotte and Sophia having:

    Edmund c.1822 Hickling Nthants
    Helena (Eleanor) c. 1817 Gamblingay Cam
    John c.1834 Welton Le Marsh Lin
    James c.1835 Scredington Lin

    Now Gamblingay and Scredington are two places I have seen the Grays stopping.

    Sophia appears on the 1871 and 1881 census in Kirton in Lindsey as a widow, born cir 1793-6 in either Lincs or Leics. This is a possible link to my Smiths as they came from Coleorton Leic about the same time. There is a death for a John Charlotte registered Jun Qtr 1860 in Glanford Brigg dist 7a 391.

    John Charlotte b.cir 1834 at Welton is almost certainly the John Charlot b.cir 1835 Lincoln who turns up in Hunslet Yorks in 1881. He is a clothes peg maker, and is living with Tennant Smith and family - another clue to the Smiths.

    A look for James Charlotte turns up two possible James. The one born cir 1835 appears to be at 6 Cross Key Yard Mansfield, Notts, in 1881 (born cir 1832) and married to Etty b.cir 1852 Retford Notts. He is a Grinder.

    A James Charlotte also turns up in 1871 b.cir 1849 Lincoln at Hunslet. He is married to a Mary and they are living with Elizah (Elijah?) Hawn (Heron??) and his wife Dinah. James also turns up on the 1851 census with his parents, Sistance Charlot and Lemontina Boswell at Ulceby Lin. Sistance claims a birthplace in Cambridgeshire, about 1820. This would put him in line to be another of Johns children, as almost certainly not all of them are on the IGI. This James was baptised 16.03.1849 Welton By Lincoln s/o Leiston Charlotte and Lamentina.


    Even more confusingly, another James turns up b.cir 1826 Brigg, at Alverthorpe cum Thornes Yks in 1881. He is a peg maker, and married to Priscilla b.cir 1831 Cooper Bridge Hunts.
    Last edited by Ann65; 29-05-2008 at 11:57 AM. Reason: mistake

  6. #6
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    Default

    Such a lot of information - thank you.

    At the moment I'm assuming Rabbi Smith, born c.1855 Nettleham is my husbands ancestor.
    He is descended from a daughter Delorina had, Sarah Ann Smith, baptised as illegitimate in Gainsborough in 1872. Rabbi and Delorina married in 1874 in Gainsborough (Delorina didn't list a father on her marriage certificate). In the 1881 census they are living at Dawsons Court in Lincoln with various Smith, Gray and Mobbs families. Sarah Ann is listed as a daughter of Philistia and Emily Smith. In 1891 she's back with Rabbi and Delorina, and when she married she named Rabbi as her father.

    However, I do think that Delorina's family is linked with Rabbi's and so I'm tracing Rabbi's family back and trying to prove a link to Delorina to establish who her parents are.

    In 1881 one of the families living with them is Francis Mobbs (Gray) born c.1835 Boston. They've got a daughter called Delerina, as you've mentioned. I think I've found Francis in 1841 in Wymondham - there are three families living together.

    Robert Smith, 50, brazier, y
    Evening Smith, 40, y
    Noah Smith, 14, y
    Robert Smith, 11, y
    Thomas Smith, 7, y

    Silvia Smith, 65, net maker, n
    Moses Smith, 20, y
    Violet Smith, 20, y
    Thomas Smith, 20, n
    Silvia Smith, 13, y
    Meclare Smith, 12, n
    Hasy Smith, 15, y
    Thomas Smith, 11 months, n

    Elston Gray, 15, n
    James Mobs, 45, chair mender, y
    Betty Mobs, 25, y
    Sabrina Mobs, 4, n
    Francis Mobs, 2, n

    If I'm right the Moses Smith aged 20 is Rabbi's father. (Meclare and Hasy Smith and Elston Gray is my best guess at what is written, Meclare and Elston were female, Hasy male. The writing is very faint). Moses' brother Thomas is listed on a census transcription I've seen as being born in Tee, Scotland. He was actually baptised in Teigh, Rutland and I've found all but the 1851 and 1871 census returns for him. He settled in Eagle and was a musician (violin player/fiddler).

    I also found Cornelius Gray/Mobbs born c.1860 Belton this morning on the 1891 census as a Smith.

    1891 - Goole - gypsy tent
    Cornelius Smith marr 33 basket maker, belton lincs
    Sevesta Smith wife 23 dewsbury yorks
    John Smith brother unm 27 scarboro
    Evelea Smith sister unm 27 castoft(?) lincs
    Laura Smith dau 1 born ? Bridge yorks

    Evelea is, I believe, Avelin Mobbs from the 1881 census, and I'm wondering if the birthplace is actually Eastoft with Cornelius being born in Belton?

    Anyway, will go through all the information you have sent to me now.

  7. #7
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    We appear to have cross posted - I've just seen your message regarding Sylvestia Smith. Thanks for all the extra info.

    Sarah Ann Smith, daughter of Rabbi and Delorina Smith married George William Major, whose mother was Sylvestia Smith.

    As far as I know the family is:

    Dennis Smith (birth unknown) married Eleanor Charlotte who was bapt June 17th 1817 at Gamlingay. Their children are Fenwick, Sabina, Sidney (born c.1835 Nettleham), Sylvestia (born c.1838) and Tennant (born c.1840 Irby on Humber/Caistor).

    Eleanor Charlotte is the daughter of John Charlotte (born c.1796 Gamlingay died April 3rd 1860 Kirton in Lindsey) and Sophia Smith (born c.1793 Leics, died Jan 6th 1887 Kirton in Lindsey). Their children are Eleanor, Sylvester (born c.1827 Folkingham), Elizabeth (born c.1828-1830 Billingham/Binbrook), Levanci (born c.1829 married Herilah/Riley Boswell and lived Scarborough), John (born c.1834 Lincoln) and James (born c.1835). The Edmund you have mentioned is a new name to me.

    Sylvestia settled in Kirton in Lindsey as did her aunt Elizabeth Charlotte, both marrying into the Major family - Sylvestia married Tom Major and Elizabeth married John Major (it looks like Tom and John Majors father, also named John, was a bigamist and Tom is from one of his families and John the other, but that's another story altogether!) One of the witnesses on Sylvestia's marriage certificate was a Boswell (John Boswell I think, but will have to dig the certificate out to check).

    I'm finding researching this line frustrating but so enjoyable. My family stayed in the same parish for generations so my husbands line is much more of a challenge, and I'm still trying to understand so much of it.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ann65 View Post

    Uriah b.cir 1869 Mkt Rasen Lin poss the Uriah Mobbs d.1940 Lincoln Workhouse, buried Newport Cem, married Mary Ann Wain in 1900.

    Quite possibly as Elderi/Eldria Gray is also buried at Newport Cem, she was buried August 8th 1862. I wonder if that means she also died in the workhouse?

  9. #9
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    Default Gray/Mobbs/Smith

    I hope you dont mind Im going to wander off and play with the info you have given me and see what I can turn up for you

  10. #10
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    Default Elston/Elderi Gray

    The 1841 Wymondham Census I have seen and noted Elderi Gray where you have transcribed Elston Gray.

    On the 1861 Census for Green Bank, Thorne, Yorks
    Class: RG9; Piece: 3525; Folio: 13; Page: 19

    There is a Dennis Smith b.cir 1820 Leics Cork Maker
    Caroline Smith b.cir 1838 Bardney Lin
    Dennis Smith b.cir1841 Aybe Lin
    George Smith b.cir 1846 Riston Lin
    Israel Smith b.cir 1850 Saxilby Lin
    Tennant Smith b.cir 1858 Histon Lin

    Picked up from the IGI

    Israel Smith s/o Dennis & Eleanor c.04.02.1849 Hemswell Lin

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