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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanneM View Post
    Can't thank you enough for all this information. I'm going to have to sit down and digest it all. .
    Its been a pleasure, and its all helping me too, I am just a hopeless addict when it comes to the gypsies.

    I must admit I have worn my brain out tonight, will have another look around tomorrow

    Ann

  2. #22
    JoanneM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ann65 View Post

    On the 1861 Census for Green Bank, Thorne, Yorks
    Class: RG9; Piece: 3525; Folio: 13; Page: 19

    There is a Dennis Smith b.cir 1820 Leics Cork Maker
    Caroline Smith b.cir 1838 Bardney Lin
    Dennis Smith b.cir1841 Aybe Lin
    George Smith b.cir 1846 Riston Lin
    Israel Smith b.cir 1850 Saxilby Lin
    Tennant Smith b.cir 1858 Histon Lin

    Picked up from the IGI

    Israel Smith s/o Dennis & Eleanor c.04.02.1849 Hemswell Lin
    I've been looking further into this, and I do think that this is the Dennis Smith who was married to Eleanor Charlotte. I'm wondering if the younger Dennis is actually Tennant Smith (who married Caroline Lucy) as Tennant was born c.1840 as one of the possible birthplaces I have for him is Irby on Humber - Irby/Aybe, maybe?

    There's a possible census entry for Israel Smith in Armley in 1891:
    Israel Smith, head, 45, clothes eg hawker, born Lincs Kirton in Lindsey
    Sibham(?), wife, 41, assistant hawker, born Yorks Cropton
    Hartleys, son, 21, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Pickering
    Tennant, son, 18, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Halifax
    George, son, 15, assistant hawker, born Yorks Halifax
    Ann A., dau, 11, scholar, born Durham Newcastle
    Cinderella, dau, 8, scholar, born Yorks Hunslet
    Benjamin, son, 4, born Yorks Holbeck
    Mary, dau, 4 months, born Yorks Armley

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanneM View Post
    I've been looking further into this, and I do think that this is the Dennis Smith who was married to Eleanor Charlotte. I'm wondering if the younger Dennis is actually Tennant Smith (who married Caroline Lucy) as Tennant was born c.1840 as one of the possible birthplaces I have for him is Irby on Humber - Irby/Aybe, maybe?
    I thought the exact same thing. The only thing I can think of is that the younger Tennant Smith died and Dennis took his name. Because Tennant is right there....

    It doesnt seem to add up, unless we take into account the possibility that the enumerator had absolute no idea how old they were and guessed - which did happen, but due to the outdoor lifestyle usually worked in the opposite direction, making them appear older.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanneM View Post
    There's a possible census entry for Israel Smith in Armley in 1891:
    Israel Smith, head, 45, clothes eg hawker, born Lincs Kirton in Lindsey
    Sibham(?), wife, 41, assistant hawker, born Yorks Cropton
    Hartleys, son, 21, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Pickering
    Tennant, son, 18, clothes peg hawker, born Yorks Halifax
    George, son, 15, assistant hawker, born Yorks Halifax
    Ann A., dau, 11, scholar, born Durham Newcastle
    Cinderella, dau, 8, scholar, born Yorks Hunslet
    Benjamin, son, 4, born Yorks Holbeck
    Mary, dau, 4 months, born Yorks Armley
    Im very interested in the fact that a Hartley appears there. Im darned sure I saw a Hartley somehow related somewhere along the Grays line - but I cant remember where for the life of me.

  5. #25
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    Default Grays

    The William Gray who became "involved" with Bethania Smith b.1800 Seaton Rutland was born cir 1791 Ashwell Hrts s/o Charles and "Equally". This corresponds to Charles Gray and Aquilla/Aquilla Smith. Charles was born 1765 Ashwell Hrts s/o Codilla Gray. Where she comes into things I really dont know, I have seen various early couples such as Thomas and Elizabeth, Peter and Sarah, and George & Martha Gray. I am sure that Codilla fits into this scheme as all were around the Hrts/Cam area abt this time.

    I have looked and looked for other possible Williams but this seems to be the only candidate.

    As I said previously, this William Gray also married Tabitha Smith, Bethanias sister. By her hed had:

    (one supposedly - was attributed to him) Hannah b.cir 1820 Ingleby Lin married Josiah Smith.
    Sidney c.1824 Nth Wheatley Notts married a Violet, and then Edingail/Mary Ann Smith,
    Eldereye c.1824 Essendine Rutland
    Charlotte c.1826 Askham Notts
    Messiah c.1830 Saxilby Lin
    Kalias b.cir 1830 died cir 1830
    Alexander c.1834 Harmston Lin
    Mary c.1836 Welton By Lincoln
    Josiah c.1840 Welton By Lincoln
    Haradine b.cir 1847 Ponteract Yrks
    Carli/Kelli/Kalias Gray b.cir 1852 Sth Carlton Lin married Eve/Eva b.cir 1851 Sth Ferriby.

  6. #26
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    The William c.1822 Ancaster who was the son of William and Bethania, as opposed to Tabitha, married Lumi/Laommi/Salome Ellen Boyling/Boiling d/o George and Joyce (Tansey).

    Now George Boyling and Joyce settled in Nettleham before they died, and are both buried there, he in 1873, and she in 1885. Salome Ellen was christened in 1823 at Scampton Lincs, and repeatedly appears on census on her own. This lends credence to the theory that William Gray died young.

    William and Lumi/Laommi/Salome Ellen had:

    Elias/Eli b.cir 1840-45 Nettleham married Sarah A. Smith
    Drusilla b.cir 1845 Ingham Lin married Walter Smith s/o William Smith and Mausolina Heron but she supposedly ran away and lived with a Pat Campbell. This appears to be late in life.
    Lucy b.cir 1850 Sheffield (no other info)
    Esther b.cir 1855 Barnsley Yks
    Joycey b.cir 1858 Bradford, married 1) Heenan Herring (Heron) 1874 Barnsley Dist Yrks, and 2) William King - know a living descendant of this family.
    Mary A. b.cir 1864 Wath Yks, married Thomas Humberstone

  7. #27
    JoanneM
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    Thank you once again, there's a lot of information to go through there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ann65 View Post
    Sidney c.1824 Nth Wheatley Notts married a Violet, and then Edingail/Mary Ann Smith
    Don't know how common the name Violet was, but there is a Violet Smith, daughter of Thomas and Sylvia and brother to Moses. She was baptised 1819 in Melton Mowbray so about the right age.

  8. #28
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    I know. I just cant prove it.

    ....

  9. #29
    JoanneM
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    Just looking at the 1861 census entry for Moses Smith in Reepham where Joshua Gray (born c.1821-30 Ingham) is listed as his brother-in-law.

    Am I right in thinking that the William and Elisha Smith aged 7 and 5 years are Joshua's sons William and Elijah "Lasher" as the ages match?

    And is the Harriet Smith listed Joshua's wife? Her birthplace is enumerated at Blyton but looking at it, it could be Blyboro.

    Also, are Harriet Brown and Harriet Smith one and the same person? They're both the same age and Willoughton is less than a mile away from Blyborough.
    Last edited by JoanneM; 30-05-2008 at 9:45 PM. Reason: Added question about Harriet Brown/Smith

  10. #30
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    1861 Reepham Lin (rough cos you obviously have it)

    Moses Smith
    Eldria Smith (nee Gray)
    with their children:
    Thomas
    Sophia
    Emma
    John
    Sarah
    Rabbi
    Walter

    Thomas Smith Moses brother
    Charlotte Smith Thomas' wife

    Joshua Gray Eldrias brother
    Harriet Brown - one would presume this is his wife considering where she is on the list
    and their children:
    William Smith
    Elisha Smith

    Elizabeth Mobbs should read Bethania Gray/Mobbs - mother in law
    Harriet Smith hadnt actually noticed the two harriets before! - this is certainly the right person to be Joshuas wife, being born in Blyborough
    Sophia Smith unknown
    Letitia Mobbs Niece - havent tracked her down yet.

    Im very confused now you have pointed it out. Im going to go have another hunt

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