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  1. #251


    Hi Ann, Could you tell me if John Elliott and Jimima Smith Married 1795 Medborne Leic, are the parents of William Elliot b Willoughby notts 1812, and Jimima Elliot b 1816 Willoughby. And if so do you know who Williams parants were please.
    Regards Scrapie.

  2. #252

    Red face Smith Family:

    Hi Ann65
    I have just been contacted by a friend that as a connection to the Thomas Smith and Sibby Smith family, here is a Census of the family in 1891 address of Dawsons Court, St Nicholas, Lincolnshire.
    *Thomas Smith, h, m, 59, Hawker, Leicestershire. (born circa 1832) father believed to be Robert Smith).
    Sibey, wife, 52, Nottinghamshire. (born circa 1839) father believed to be James Smith, some dispute over her age compared with Marriage.
    Harriet, dau, 17, Lincoln Lincolnshire. (It looks like this Harriet and her brother Thomas, are in fact Sibby's Grandchildren)
    Thomas, son, 14, Lincoln Lincolnshire.
    I am wondering if there is a pedigree for this family, it would make life a lot easier, just to get them into some order.

    Thanks Laurie

  3. #253


    hello do you have a picture of no name herons grave by anychance ? as he is my 4 x great grandad his grandaughter amelia heron married eliace gray there son george nepolian gray was my great grandad his wife was sally sarah smith who was a cousin to my mams dad richard smith from stafford

  4. #254


    Quote Originally Posted by JoanneM View Post

    I've been researching my OH's ancestry, and he has connections with Gray and Smith gypsies in Lincolnshire - don't recognise the names you have mentioned but though I'd post in case the names are relevant to you.

    I have Eldria(Eldery?) Gray (sometimes Mobbs) born c.1821 in Winsley, Northamptonshire and died 1862 in Lincoln who married Moses Smith who was born c.1816 in Harby, Leicestershire. Their son Rabbi Smith, born c.1855 in Nettleham, Lincs is my OH's ancestor.

    Eldria Gray is the daughter of James Gray (Mobbs), born c.1795 and Bertha Smith born c.1800 in Seaton Rutland, daughter of Wisdom and Hannah Smith.

    Also I have Sylvestia Smith, born c.1838 in Cabourne/Caistor, daughter of Dennis Smith and Eleanor Charlotte, born c.1817, Gamlingay. Eleanor's parents were John Charlotte and Sophia Smith, both of whom settled in Kirton in Lindsey.

    Any links at all?

    ive resceched this family aswell bethnia was married to william gray then married james mobbs he was a musician she had twins rightious and cornelious with him and moses my great grannys sister sagey heron married one of the twins not sure witch one now as ive got it all written down and packed away i have had contact from a great granson of moses last year as i kept getting confused in some documents saying bethania had another son eliace gray with was my 2x great grandad but that wasent the case it was a mix up becouse eliace gray married sageys sister amelia heron they wer brother inlaws not brothers

  5. #255


    Quote Originally Posted by Ann65 View Post
    Mobbs and Grays

    Elderi Gray and Moses Smith had:

    Thomas b.cir 1840 Harby Leic married Siberamily "Sibby" Smith b.cir 1840 Northampton
    Sophia b.cir 1841 Harby Leic
    Emma b.cir 1845 Normanby Lin
    John b.cir 1850 Bishops Norton Lin
    Rabbi Smith b.cir 1857 Nettleham Lin married Deloraine or Delorina b.cir 1851 Worksop
    Sarah b.cir 1851 Will
    Joshua Gray/Mobbs and Harriet had:

    William b.cir 1853 Barrow Lin
    Elijah "Lasher" b.cir 1856 Rand or Stockton Lin
    Moses b.cir 1862 Barkwith Lin
    Reajiel? b.cir 1864 Mkt Rasen Lin
    Uriah b.cir 1869 Mkt Rasen Lin poss the Uriah Mobbs d.1940 Lincoln Workhouse, buried Newport Cem, married Mary Ann Wain in 1900.
    Charles b.cir 1872 Mkt Rasen
    Mary Ann b.cir 1875 Mkt Rasen

    Righteous Gray and Sagey Heron had:
    Alfred, Samuel, Nathan, Edward and Emily and settled at Kingsthorpe Nthants

    Elias Gray and Amelia had:
    Abigail b.1867 Kingsthorpe married Iza Heron s/o Isaac
    Mary b.cir 1869 Halesowen Worc married Alfred Smith
    Mizelli/Marcelli b.cir 1871 Walsall Stf
    Sunpoleon "Poley" aka George b.cir 1876 Bloxwich Stf married Jane Smith
    Matilda b.cir 1878 Walsall Stf married 1) Tom Winter b.cir 1858 Huddersfield, m1897
    and 2) Rabbi Smith b.cir 1875 Kelsale Sfk, m.1928

    Francis Gray/Mobbs and Selina had:

    Cornelius b.cir 1860 Belton Lin
    Avelin b.cir 1864 Astoft Yks (Altofts?)
    Elisha b.cir 1867 Gainsborough Lin
    Bethany b.cir 1868 Sheffield Yks
    Delarina b.cir 1869 Yorkshire

    Moses Gray/Mobbs and Sylvia Smith had:

    Righteous b.cir 1860 Gainsborough married Lucy Rodgers 1882
    Cornelius b.cir 1863 Springthorpe married Elizabeth Ellmore 1881
    Levi b.cir 1865 Lincoln married Mary Ellen Gabbitas 1886
    Mary J b.cir 1867 Tresswell Nott
    James b.cir 1870 Gainsboro d.1953 Scroby Cem Scunthorpe, married Sophia 1875-1963
    Elizabeth b.cir 1873 Gainsboro
    Florence b.cir 1875 Gainsboro
    hello eliace and amelia were my 2x great grandparents he wasent the son of james and bethany his parents were eliace and sophia gray easy mistake as i thought it aswell for a while the mix up is becouse sagey and amelia were sisters not there husband brothers i found this out in a gypsy magazine then i got a email from moses mobbs great granson and he confirmed it bethania was married to william gray and has a son william then married james mobbs and had all the other children james wasent a travller maybe this is why the children took the name of gray sometimes and james was a musician

  6. #256


    ive got cousins at brigg there are grays still there yes but mobbs is not a gypsy name i was told james wasent a gypsy and when him and bethnia married the children sometimes took the same name as there older brother william gray i have family all over the country my mams a smith and these are the only mobbs family i know there are no other gypsy familys called mobbs one of the mobbs got intouch with me last year and he told me james wasent a travller he must have married in and maybe a few of his family but looks like they settled back down and the family line died out as the name as

  7. #257
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Apr 2023

    Red face Isaac Smith, Leicestershire 1853 & family

    Quote Originally Posted by cherylstonebrid View Post
    I am watching this thread with interest. I am looking for an Isaac Smith who initially looked likely to be this one! Sadly he isn't.

    Isaac Smith born Leicestershire 1853.

    Isaac is the father of Phoebe Smith 1874 who married Robert Smith, son of Hawthorn and Lydia in June 1893 at Edingley, Notts. He is described as a hawker on the marriage certificate

    Phoebe maintains her place of birth as Sleaford in all the census returns to 1911. Likely bmd entry is Phoebe Ann Smith Peterborough March q 1874

    The family appear on the 1891 census RG12 Piece 2707 Folio 64 Page 9 where Phoebe appears as Febarbth aged 16, with siblings Eliza 7, Mathilda 5 and Emma 2. Dad is Isaac aged 38, a grinder, born Leicestershire and Mum is Martha 39.

    Isaac and Martha appear in Worksop in 1901 with the younger children.

    Isaac Smith and Martha Lamin married in 1882 in Southwell. looking at the gap between siblings it looks likely that Martha was not Phoebe's mother.

    I am hoping that someone might be able to tell me more.


    I am also seeking information on Isaac Smith and his family and I am the granddaughter of Mary Smith, daughter of Isaac and Martha. I am seeking information on the rest of the family, who the siblings married (if they did) but I hope to confirm a marriage between Isaac and Martha so I can go further back. Family hearsay is that her maiden name was Smith (they joked that a Smith married a Smith) and it seems that Phoebe did the same. There is a reference on the BDM site to a marriage between an Isaac Smith and a Martha Mary Smith, marriage 1874 (Bristol 6a 86). Unfortunately, there are 3 women and 3 men in this register that show an Isaac Smith and an Isaas Smith, with 2 Martha Marys'; one Martha Mary Smith and a Martha Mary Purnell. When I ordered the marriage certificate for Isaac Smith to Martha Mary Smith, they gave me the marriage of Isaac Smith to Martha Mary Purnell instead. Upon emailing, asking for clarification because the cert didn't match both names asked for, they re-sent the cert only to get the same one again. I will go back and ask for the Isaas Smith and Martha Mary Smith to see what I get, but it would be so nice if the certs were included in my subscription and I could download them! Any assistance with the rest of the family would be appreciated.

  8. #258
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
    Join Date
    Oct 2004


    Hello SharonL,

    Welcome to British-Genealogy.

    You may have noticed that the original posts in this thread were made several years ago so only two of the posters (Ann65 and babygirl101)are still members of the forum. Hopefully they will receive notification of your post.

    Re your request to the GRO for a copy of the marriage certificate, I have good news and I have bad news.
    Firstly, you need to understand what FreeBMD is, and how it's come into being.
    It's a transcription of the original GRO Indexes of birth, marriage and death registrations from the beginning of civil registration in England and Wales on 1 July 1837. It was intended to transcribe entries to the December quarter 1983, but now the majority of those entries have been transcribed the finish date has been extended to December quarter 1992.
    With transcriptions, come errors. Especially as the transcribers can sometimes use shortcuts which means if you get one detail incorrect, then another detail can also be automatically entered incorrectly. And this is without allowing for errors in the actual Index itself. (According to the Index my aunt and uncle married in completely different counties when they married in 1957!)
    The good thing about FreeBMD is that the entries are double-keyed, so if one person gets a detail incorrect hopefully the other person will get it correct. Both entries will show in the database and you can then check what the original entry in the Index said by clicking the 'specs' symbol to the right of the entry.

    If you do this with either the entry for Isaac or Isaas, you will find that there is only one entry in the Bristol registration district, and that's for Isaas. Which means the person who keyed in Isaac made an error in the transcription.
    So you now have two men (Isaac and Samuel), and three women.

    Isaac Smith married Martha Mary Purnell on 15 August 1874 at Bristol, St Philip and Jacob. Both were single.
    His father was William Smith. Martha Mary's father was William Purnell.

    Samuel Smith married Elizabeth Hester Smith on 19 August 1874 at Bristol, St Philip and Jacob.
    His father was William Smith. Elizabeth's father was Samuel Smith.

    The details about those marriages were found on Findmypast in their Gloucestershire, Bristol Marriage Index dataset.
    When I search for a Martha Mary Smith, there are no results.
    My theory therefore is that a clerk who was transferring the details from the marriage register to the GRO Index got a phone call in the middle of transferring, got distracted, forgot where he was up to and what he was supposed to be doing, and then as well as writing Martha Mary Purnell proceeded to write Martha Mary Smith as a bonus.

    Even better than the index on FMP is that Ancestry have copies of the parish register with both marriages in their Bristol, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938 dataset.
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

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