Bastardy Bonds

[busyglen]

Can anyone give me a pointer please?

I am still struggling to find the parents of my John JARVIS, (father named as John GREEN on his marriage cert.) but am really stuck!

John Jarvis was born in 1823 in Dunton, Bucks. (according to the 1851 Census in London). I purchased the PRs for Dunton from Bucks. FHS, but no trace of him there. So, following other members advice on this forum, I have been trying to find out where (if any) the Bastardy Bonds would be held. I looked on Genuki, and even asked the Bucks. FHS, but they haven't replied. Where should I go to get this information?

I realise that I am clutching at straws, but it's a case of eliminating one thing at a time.

John married Emma Robbins in 1842 in Buckingham, so he stayed in the County until after they were married. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the 1841 Bucks. will be out soon (please Rod) to see if I can glean any more information.

Glenys

[Peter Goodey]

The Society of Genealogists' library catalogue shows two publications from Bucks FHS -

1. Buckinghamshire Settlement Papers : Index of Names

An index to settlement papers & miscellaneous papers filed with them, covering marriage bonds, banns, removal orders & bastardy bonds. However, the index does not indicate which type of document is held for a particular name.

2. Supplementary index of settlement certificates, removal orders, bastardy bonds, apprentices etc.


Perhaps they might be of use to you?

Otherwise, Bucks Records Office would seem to be the place to try (presumably that's where the documents are)

[Mythology]

Glenys, other than saying, yes, the county record office seems the logical place to try, I won't comment on the Bastardy Bonds - Peter knows tons more than I do about them.

The 1841 census ...

Health warning!
This is from a quick bash at what you can get at free on a well-known site by using the link from TNA. It is by no means conclusive and a rummage through the actual thing may turn up something.

I think he's using his father's name and has already left home so it won't tell you anything useful.

John's born about 1823. Might appear as that, or, if rounded down as per instructions might appear as "abt 1826" (15) or, if thick like some of my lot who didn't read the instructions properly and rounded their ages up, as "abt 1821" (20). Basically we need some between "abt 1821" and "abt 1826".

John Jarvis, living Buckinghamshire:
abt 1766
abt 1801
abt 1839
abt 1840
abt 1840

All way out.

(continues)

[Mythology]

He married in Buckingham 1842. Could he already have been living outside the county in 1841 but had rellies there?

Jarvis, any forename, living Buckinghamshire, parish Buckingham:
No results

Doesn't look as if that's the answer.

OK - is he using dad/s name? As he married in Buckingham 1842, is he there as John Green in 1841?
John Green living Buckinghamshire, parish Buckingham:
one result ...
abt 1826

Right-ho - is he *with* his father then?
Green, any forename, living Buckinghamshire, parish Buckingham:
only two others ...
Ann abt 1761
Henry abt 1816

So, this John Green is not with his father.
He *could* be with one or both of the above, but as John shows up as born Buckinghamshire and the other two do not, I suspect there's no connection, and, obviously by the ages, neither of them is his parent anyway.
I would *guess* that this John Green is already out in the great wide world, at work somewhere, and I would *guess* that he's your boy, so be prepared for disappointment.

Sorry!

[busyglen]

Many thanks Peter, that information is a great help. I always seem to get lost when trying to work out where to go for what! I originally thought of Bucks Record Office, but thought I would go to the FHS first. Unusual for them, I didn't get a reply, although they promised to send me a copy of something a while ago, and never did, so perhaps they have been inundated.

Again thanks.

Glenys

[busyglen]

Myth!

Thanks for having a shot at this, it's nice to get someone else's take on it, and as you have a `wayward' lot, your ways of thinking are different than mine.

My `feelings' are that John Jarvis was born illegitimate, to parents unknown, in Buckinghamshire. I think that:

a) He took his mother's name of Jarvis.

b) Somewhere along the line, he knew he was born in Dunton, hence he gave this as POB on the 1851 Census. The 1861 Census for St. George, Han. Squ. is `missing/mislaid' so I cannot check that, and unfortunately he `fell over' in 1870, so no clues there.

c) There were families of Green living in various places near to Dunton, and I also found a few John Greens, but nothing that jumps out and hits me!

d) When he married Emma Robbins (born Buckingham) in 1846, he gave his age as 19, and he was a Soldier. In what regiment I have no idea. When he died in 1870, his age was given as 47, so this supports birth around 1823.

e) They had a child in 1846 ( 4 yrs after they married, possibly because he was away as a soldier) who was born in Buckingham. So...up to now he seems to have been staying in his birth County.

f) In 1850 they are in St. Geo. Hanover Squ. and he is a Policeman and a girl Emma is born. They are also found here on the 1851 Census, and he dies at the same address in 1870.

Cont..

[busyglen]

Cont....

So, I have come to the conlusion that:

He knew his father was John Green, and that is why I am on the Barstardy Bond trail, just in case.

Or..as I have found with another ancestors line, he didn't know who his father was, and just made one up for the marriage cert....but, that doesn't quite ring true, otherwise he would have said John Jarvis, not confuse the issue by stating John Green.

The marriage cert. clearly says John Green.

Sigh!!

So, it looks from what you are saying, that I might not get much joy from the 1841! Still, I shall get it anyway, as I want to check Emma out as well, as I believe she was shown as Eliza, and baptised as Eliza, but went on to call herself Emma Sophia. All good fun `innit?'

Thanks for the input Myth.

Glenys

[Geoffers]

A couple of thoughts:

1) Is there a John Green living/born in/near Dunton in the 1841/51 census? (edit - forget this bit, just seen what you have written above)

2) Have you tried the Tithe commutation records from the 1830's to see if there is a John Green in/near Dunton?

For the Tithe Act 1836 records, see this TNA guide and scroll down to part 6
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...sLeafletID=100

Geoffers

[Mythology]

"When he married Emma Robbins (born Buckingham) in 1846, he gave his age as 19, and he was a Soldier."

OK, I know you mean 1842 not 1846, so don't worry about the typo, it's the tail end bit that's relevant. If he was a soldier, he could have been almost *anywhere* in 1841!
So, you can probably forget the John Green who's in Buckingham.

Back to the drawing board.

"I have come to the conlusion that:
He knew his father was John Green, and that is why I am on the Barstardy Bond trail, just in case."

Yes, I'd concentrate the effort on that.

"I might not get much joy from the 1841! Still, I shall get it anyway, as I want to check Emma out as well, as I believe she was shown as Eliza, and baptised as Eliza, but went on to call herself Emma Sophia."

There is an Emma Robbins born "abt 1826" in Buckingham 1841.
No Eliza, only an Elizabeth "abt 1814".
Lots of other Robbins too, so iffy without seeing the page, but if she's at home, looks as though Emma's parents are probably Thomas and Mary, so if you have Thomas as her father on the marriage cert, that looks promising.

[busyglen]

2) Have you tried the Tithe commutation records from the 1830's to see if there is a John Green in/near Dunton?

For the Tithe Act 1836 records, see this TNA guide and scroll down to part 6
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/c...sLeafletID=100

Geoffers

No Geoffers, I wouldn't have thought of that, so thank you, thats a great idea to try. This is the first time that I have encountered something like this, so it is all new to me. It's like being back at school!

Glenys