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  1. #1
    lisawagner
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    Default St Joseph's Industrial School for Girls

    Hi to all,

    I am trying, without success, to find information regarding my GGrandmother Alice Campbell, she married James Webster in 1911 and her father is named as William Campbell, Seaman, deceased. Her age has her born about 1885 and her death certificate confirms this. I have found an entry in the 1891 and 1901 census of an Alice Campbell, both St Joseph's Catholic Industrial School for Girls, Rusholme, Manchester, age 6 in the 1891 of Salford and 18 in the 1901 of Liverpool, and I am only assuming this is the same Alice in both. In the 1901 she is listed as a costume machinist, same as her marriage certificate. I know she had a sister known as Margaret who married Webb and the informant on her death certificate is her nephew Daniel Webb of Greenheys, Hulme but my Mum vaguely remembers Margaret may have been known as Mary, and there is a Man entry in the 1891 and 1901 census of an Alice Campbell, both St Joseph's Catholic Industrial School for Girls, Rusholme, Manchester, age 6 in the 1891 of Salford and 18 in the 1901 of Liverpool, and I am only assuming this is the same Alice in both. In the 1901 she is listed as a costume machinist, same as her marriage certificate. I know she had a sister known as Margaret who married Webb and the informant on her death certificate is her nephew Daniel Webb of Greenheys, Hulme but my Mum vaguely remembers Margaret may have been known as Mary, and there is a Mary Campbell listed on the 1891 census. I have searched for William in the 1881 but there are hundreds and none are seaman and there are numberous possibilities for her birth certificate. The only other information I know is that the family were devout Catholic so this would fit with the St Joseph's entry.

    Now I have listed what I know is there anyone out there who could possibly steer me in the right direction. I have tried but can not seem to find any records for the Girls Industrial School, only the Boys in Ardwick. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place, so if anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this and any help would be appreciated.

    Regards,
    Lisa
    Last edited by lisawagner; 14-05-2006 at 5:22 PM. Reason: Some of what I have typed has repeated itself

  2. #2
    uksearch
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    If any records survive for St Joseph's they will held by the Salford Dioceses. You can Google for their web site.

    UK

  3. #3
    timetraveller
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    Did you ever find the reords on st josephs orphan and industrial school?My grandmother was there on the 1901 censusaged 13, she had a sister at their shool in liverpool who she did not know about.I have been trying for so long to find anything...it was run partly by the sisters of charity st vincent de paul and most of the girls were trained to go into service.While they were at the school they did rudimentary lessons but mostly did laundry work.my grandmother who was born in 1887 remembered that the nuns were very strict and there was not much in the way of kindness shown to the girls.my grandmother was sent to france to work as a nursemaid when she was 15 .she did not have any happy memories of the school or the nuns

  4. #4
    timetraveller
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    Default st josephs industrial school

    Ive also been tracking down records on st josephs industrial school.So far after the 1901 census list I have found nothing butnow know that the records for the girls school were held by the sisters of charity the ones with the big hats andwere held in Mill HILLinLondon,however I have been told that they have recently beendownsized and moved to a new address.The2009 Catholic Directory,which may be in your local library should have the address of the Archives of the sisters of st Vincent de Paul.All this information I have got from DavidLannon (AT) aol (DOT) com he isthe very helpful archivist at SalfordDiocese Hope this helps.......going to try his advice willlet you know.
    Last edited by Jan1954; 18-01-2009 at 7:03 PM. Reason: Email address edited to foil those persistent spammers!

  5. #5
    Procat
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    Lisa has not been on the forum since 2006 so may not see your response Timetraveller..

  6. #6
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello timetraveller.
    Big coincidence here as I found this post on google whilst looking for info on St Joseph's Industrial school. (I spend a lot of time on here but have never seen Lisa's post but I am in the process of researching the same people as her for a 2nd cousin) - she does have a couple of pieces of info wrong. Margaret and Mary are separate people but are sisters. On Mary's marriage cert she gives her father as John Campbell so is he William or John?
    I put that detail in in case Lisa gets to see this.
    I would be very interested in anything you may find out about the records for this institution and will also pass on the email address to my rellie.
    Thank you
    Christina

  7. #7
    lisawagner
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    Hello Christina,

    it has been a while since I have been able to get back into my family history, I have recently picked up where I left off and yes, Mary and Margaret are sisters, along with Alice who is my GreatGrandmother. I have found them all in the 1911 census living at 81 Victoria Square, Ancoats which is also the address given on the marriage certificate of Alice to James Webster and later in 1922 they were living at 10 Victoria Square when my Grandmother was born. Mother to Mary, Alice and Margaret is Sarah Jane, the census has her aged 64 and from Liverpool and it states she has given birth to 10 children, only 3 living and Mary has a 3 year old daughter Sarah Jane Freda Campbell. Mary and Alice are listed as born Crumpsall Hospital and then overlapping Margaret and Sarah it has birth as Cheetham, Her Majestys Prison, Crumpsall. I may have found Sarah Jane in the 1891 living in Silk Street which isn't far from Victoria Square but other than that I am no further on. My mum has now remembered Mary or Margaret were known as 'Mutsy' but my mum can not be sure which one she remembers as it was back in the 40s/50s. You state Mary's marriage certificate shows her father as John, does it state his occupation as Seaman and a long shot but did Mary become Webb and then Fordy as this may explain the Webb connection with the nephew of Alice and I have the burial records and there is a Mary Fordy buried with Alice at St Josephs.

    Kindest regards,
    Lisa

  8. #8
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hello Lisa
    I am busy trying to find all my notes on this family. I have quite a few even though they are not my line at all! Mary, sister of Alice and Margaret was with Charles Henry Fordy b1880 Manchester and James Webb. James and she married in the Sept quarter 1912. They had 3 children Henry 1912, Charles 1915 and Daniel 1919. Your Mum remembers correctly about the name "Mutsy" but I am going to have to look for it in my notes.
    I will get back to you but I am afraid you are going to be disappointed as I have been looking for the parents of Mary Campbell for a couple of years now without success. However you never know.
    I also have the 1911 census you give the details for.
    Let me get my head around this and I will get back to you.

  9. #9
    lisawagner
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    Thanks for that Christina, the burial information now makes sense, they are buried in St. Joseph's Catholic Cemetery, Moston, the plot is St Dunstan 1336 and the entries are

    08/06/1963 Alice Webster, 78, 1 Hewitt Road, Collyhurst.
    07/06/1965 Mary Fordy, 84, 97 Park Street, Greenheys.
    09/11/1973 John Dwyer, 54, 21 Rodney Court, Miles Platting.

    I have only recently had a breakthrough with this particular branch, Alice's daughter Margaret died in 1955 and my mum (Margaret's daughter) stayed in contact with Alice but it was difficult as Margaret's husband had fallen out with Alice. My mum remembers going and the house was empty, she knocked on a neighbours and was told Alice had died. I will post anything I find for you to pass on to your 2nd cousin.

    Regards,
    Lisa

  10. #10
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi
    found a few things. It is Mary who they called Mutsy.
    Although her daughter Sarah was known as Sarah Webb and married Herbert Bootham under that name in 1934 we don't know who her father was. Probably not James Webb. Sarah Campbell/Webb was known to the family as Cissie. When she married Herbert Bootham she gave her father as James Henry Webb railway porter. The witnesses were Charles Webb and an Alice Ashcroft.
    James Webb was 62 years old, a railway porter living at 153 Siddall Street off Rochdale Road Manchester, a widower, when he and Mary married. She gave the same address.
    His father Charles Henry Webb, confectioner, deceased. Mary's father given as John Campbell seaman (mercantile) deceased. Witnesses Harry Kelly and **hanna (Johanna?) Flaherty
    I have census records for Charles Henry and family. James Webb was born in Kent.
    In 1881 I have a census entry for a Sarah Webb, age 39, widow, an inmate of the Salford Union workhouse, domestic servant born Liverpool. However it is too early for any children to be with her, but one to consider.
    If she had three illegitimate children she may have done what my gggrandmother did and give them her deceased husbands surname.
    I have many pieces of paper with birth, marriage and death records where i have been searching, unsuccesfully for the origins of Sarah Jane Campbell and John? Campbell. Also the births of the girls and Sarah Jane Fred Campbell. That names appears nowhere other than the 1911 census.
    There are many bibs and bobs on this family but maybe a pm/email is the way to go.

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