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Thread: copyright query

  1. #11
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    "Try reading it again Peter it also includes individuals"

    I managed to absorb it the first time I read it. The paragraph is irrelevant to what Ann wants to do. Paragraph 8(d) covers what she wishes to do.

    If you're so convinced that you're right, why don't you publish a copy of a certificate on one of your web pages and post the URL here? I'll report it to GRO and we'll see what they have to say about it.

    If they say it's acceptable, you'll be proved right and I'll be proved wrong.

  2. #12
    Guy Etchells
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey
    "Try reading it again Peter it also includes individuals"

    I managed to absorb it the first time I read it. The paragraph is irrelevant to what Ann wants to do. Paragraph 8(d) covers what she wishes to do.

    If you're so convinced that you're right, why don't you publish a copy of a certificate on one of your web pages and post the URL here? I'll report it to GRO and we'll see what they have to say about it.

    If they say it's acceptable, you'll be proved right and I'll be proved wrong.
    Very well
    https://www.framland.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/EBC.htm
    Do your worst.
    Cheers
    Guy

  3. #13

    Default Copyright ad nauseum

    The discussion between Guy and Peter on this subject just illustrates how the concept of copyright when it does not relate to the protection of the rights of an author for the protection of his creative efforts, has got its knickers in a twist. Why on earth does the GRO wish to claim copyright on a Birth certificate for goodness sake. It did not create the work, it is merely the production of a piece of paper containing bits of information, which in themselves are not copyright.

    And when it comes to protecting "images" which are in fact a computer generated reproduction of the information contained a machine coded file, well then the mind boggles. In an increasingly daft world, one could imagine Adobe or Microsoft claiming copyright over every "image" created with their software.

    Cheers..Ed
    Cheers..Ed

  4. #14
    Guy Etchells
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    The view is held (according to the consultation document) that by claiming copyright on birth, marriage and death certificates this will help to prevent identity theft.
    However that argument falls down at the very first hurdle as under UK law anyone in the world may buy any official copy of any birth, marriage or death certificate ever issued in the UK (with the exception of certificates for stillbirths and adopted persons).
    see also section 5.11 and 6.1
    https://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/crown-...-copyright.pdf

    Here they are usinmessage=The view is held (according to the consultation document) that by claiming copyright on birth, marriage and death certificates this will help to prevent identity theft.
    However that argument falls down at the very first hurdle as under UK law anyone in the world may buy any official copy of any birth, marriage or death certificate ever issued in the UK (with the exception of certificates for stillbirths and adopted persons).
    see also section 5.11 and 6.1
    https://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/crown-...-copyright.pdf

    Here they are using the same excuse as they use with the 1911 census, however to use it for publically accessible birth, marriage and death certificates is totally imbecilic.

    In reality it is simply a money making exercise and as such has time restraints.

  5. #15

    Default Copyright ad nauseum

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Etchells
    The view is held (according to the consultation document) that by claiming copyright on birth, marriage and death certificates this will help to prevent identity theft.
    However that argument falls down at the very first hurdle.
    I rest my case m'lud.

    If the reasons given are patently nonsense, then it follows that they are not the true reasons, unless of course you are a government department that doesnt care about making nonsensical claims. Oh dear.. we are talking about a Government department arnt we ? So perhaps they really believe the silly reason !! Nah- no one could be that daft could they :-)

    Cheers..Ed

  6. #16
    HelenVSmith
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    Hi

    Please correct me if I am wrong (as I often am) but the GRO only has the "power" to be unhappy about me posting the image of a certificate to a website. Am I at liberty to post the data?

    Regards
    Helen

  7. #17
    Guy Etchells
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    I can see this turning into another long discussion.

    Yes you may transcribe the data to a web site.

    Before anyone pipes up about privacy and the data Protection Act (DPA) here is the view of the Information Commissioner (the person empowered to bring enforcement and prosecutions under the DPA.

    "In accordance with section 36, if the research in question is undertaken
    purely for "that individual's personal, family or household affairs
    (including recreational purposes)" then that processing is exempt from
    compliance with the Act. Thismessage=I can see this turning into another long discussion.

    Yes you may transcribe the data to a web site.

    Before anyone pipes up about privacy and the data Protection Act (DPA) here is the view of the Information Commissioner (the person empowered to bring enforcement and prosecutions under the DPA.

    "In accordance with section 36, if the research in question is undertaken
    purely for "that individual's personal, family or household affairs
    (including recreational purposes)" then that processing is exempt from
    compliance with the Act. This would be case the case whether or not that
    data was published on a website."

    Note in this case only individuals have the exemption to publish details of living persons on a web site. A family history society could not publish such details on their web site.
    Cheers
    Guy

  8. #18
    HelenVSmith
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    Hi

    Thank you. I was not planning on putting details about living people and will probably do cutoffs for marriages in around 1945 and cutoff for actual births 1930s.

    A second question please. Wills post-1858, are you arware of what the copyright issue is of putting a transcription on the web? I have seen Probate calender info and pre-1858 wills transcribed but very few post 1858.

    I am in the process of considering setting up pages for my One Name study of Quested and I have all the post-1858 wills to the end of WW2.

    Regards
    helen

  9. #19
    Guy Etchells
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    Wills are the copyright of the deceased and as such form part of his/her estate.
    Cheers
    Guy

  10. #20
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    I can explain a bit about USA laws regarding vital records.

    Marriage and death records are now and always have been Public Record, they are available to anyone for the asking. With that said, some States have now tried to restrict some access to death records by asking that you state your relationship along with a photo ID of yourself to help prove your kinship to someone who has died with in the last 75 years.

    That new restriction seems to go against the Public Records laws and I believe could be challenged if a State or County or City refused you access to a copy of a Marriage or Death record. Federal over rules some State and local laws on some respects. I believe some of the newest laws some States have put in place, are in responce to the ever growing identity theft problem.
    But I belive if a State or local level were to refuse me access to a record,
    I would simply file a Freedom of Information Act complaint and eventually I would get access to that record regardless of my kinship to the people in the records I was seeking.

    I should not now or ever have to provide a photo ID to be able to obtain a Public Record here in the USA. That seems to go against our Freedom of Privacy Act.

    Birth records prior to a certain date, which I think is 100 years and as long as that person is now deceased can be obtained.

    So far of all the Lock(e) records I have ordered via snail mail through the many various court houses or vital records offices at the state level, not once have I been denied in obtaining a copy of a record that I requested.
    Not once have I provided a photo ID even when they stated I MUST provide them with it. But in time I do expect at some point to be denied and when that happens, they will find out that they aren't messing around with a noobie, they will be dealing with someone who happens to know some what about the USA laws

    I have heard stories of court houses refusing access to public records, stating no one has the right to view or make copies of such records.
    A simple phone call to our local congressman will normally get a phone call to that court house to YELL that his citizens in his or her district are being denied access to public records. Believe me, when a congressman is forced to make such a phone call, heads will roll !

    I myself have run in to one such court house whom does not allow for any public records to be accessed. The court house made an agreement with the local historical society to microfilm all the public records, and now can only be searched and copied only at the local historical society.
    Microfilms as most of you know are not good quality images and make poor copies of. When I demanded access to the local Public Records, I was threatened with jail time!
    Icords I have ordered via snail mail through the many various court houses or vital records offices at the state level, not once have I been denied in obtaining a copy of a record that I requested.
    Not once have I provided a photo ID even when they stated I MUST provide them with it. But in time I do expect at some point to be denied and when that happens, they will find out that they aren't messing around with a noobie, they will be dealing with someone who happens to know some what about the USA laws

    We will see how this turns out. If the County and State still refuse to make the public records available to the public, I will then take it to the federal level. States hate it when the Feds get involved!

    Don

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