Croxon puzzle Wem/Whitchurch

[Sharron]

Here's a family that has been puzzling me for years and I had hoped to find when I subscribed to Ancestry, but no such luck.

According to the IGI, Samuel Croxon and his wife Betsy baptised three daughters in Whitchurch: Ada Eliza in 1885, Ethel Sarah in 1887, and Gladys in 1894. Now, I know how unreliable the IGI can be, but all of the births have been found on Free BMD.

With regards to Samuel and Betsy, I have found an entry on Free BMD which includes a Samuel Croxon and a Betsy Sands, but the entry is incomplete. It is in 1877, Whitchurch (which makes me wonder if there are more children!).

However, I have been unable to find any trace of them on any census return. Fair enough, they may have been mistranscribed in the index, but if the Betsy Sands who was born in the Wem district in 1859 is my Betsy, then why can I find no trace of her, or Samuel, who I assume is going to be of similar age, on any census return? Similarly, the children.

Were they all wiped out by a cataclysmic episode akin to that which took out the dinosaurs? It's possible. However, an Ada Eliza Croxon got married in 1902. Is she mine?



Does anybody have any pointers/idea/clue before I start buying certificates?

(PS I don't get paid until the 20th of the month!)

[Wirral]

Hi Sharron

Try RG12/2125 page 10 folio 66. Look under name Spencer.
Then look at RG13/2555 p11 f70, again under Spencer.

I know the name is nothing like Croxon, but the names & ages & place match.

The 1881 census may be a clue to the name change. RG11/2649 p2 f51
Samuel Spencer inmate 24 mar ag lab, Whitchurch shropshire
He is in HM Prison "Darra" in Shrewsbury!!

In 1871 RG10/4066 p2 f118 Manchester Salford Reformatory School Blackley
Samuel Spencer inmate 15 U Whitchurch

I'm going to be very disappointed if he doesn't turn out to be yours!

[Sharron]

Oh, hang on a minute and will check out the other bits.

Blimey, you can't do half a blinkin' post and then edit it while someone's checkin' out the first bit! Flippin' 'eck!

[Sharron]

Just as one puzzle is solved, another one presents itself!

There is no doubt that you are an , that I am , have obviously been , but could quite cheerfully run up the road now and you ..............

But .................

Why the change in name? I would understand if it were changed after Samuel came out of prison! Do you realise, Alison, that if this is my family, then this is the first skeleton I know about! Thanks to you, that is.

It would have to be a massive coincidence for it not to be the same family, but the births are registered in the name of Croxon, and the census in the name Spencer. Both subject to legal prosecution (I assume) if false details were given.

(The thing is that I would probably have seen those people individually in the index, when I've searched under christian name and date of birth, but not looked on the image! D'oh!)

I didn't know who Samuel Croxon's parents were, by the way, but I note from the 1891 that he has his mother living with him, Ann, aged 72, born in Prees, which matches up with an Ann Croxon I have, but whom I had no knowledge of after 1841. Certainly no knowledge of marriage or children.

[Wirral]

Have you found any marriages for Samuel Croxon/Spencer? Or births? Was he illegitimate? Or was his mother married more than once & he used whichever "father's" name was best at the time?

[Sharron]

[Thought I would post what I had written and then carry on, and then the flippin' computer crashed!]

Right, so, Alison. I spotted Betsy Spencer ("Ooh, Betty") on the 1881, in Whitchurch, waiting patiently for her miscreant of a husband, with her son Thomas, aged 2, and her 'mother'.

I say 'mother', because that is how she is described, but I find it hard to believe that Samuel's mother is Ann born in Prees (c. 1819) and so is Betsy's (c. 1831). Or maybe the enumerator thought she looked good for her age!

And I saw Samuel in the reformatory school in Blackley (where I also have links to - the town, that is!). The fact that he's in prison just ten years later shows that the argument that prison is no deterrent is not a new one.

And then we go back further. Or at least try to. Where is Samuel Spencer the 5-year old? It could be that that part of the census is missing. I know there are problems with the 1861, and will have to go through Ancestry and TNA to find out which.

I hope you aren't disappointed with my flounderings, Alison. I just can't answer with any certainty whether it is my Samuel. I want to say yes, and everything points to it. I may just have to take one of those leaps in the dark that sometimes work out for me.

Except it isn't such a leap in the dark now you've found Stanley Spencer. Thank you for your hard work.

Sharron

[Sharron]

I spent a good while last night searching for reference to Samuels, Betsys, Croxons, Spencers, etc. In fact, I have spent most of today struggling to keep my eyes open.

I can find no trace on Free BMD or Family Search of any marriage of Samuel or of his mother. In fact, it only appears to be on Family Search that either of them exist, at least with the surname Croxon. I did a marriage search just on Spencer, but that didn't get me anywhere. Too many incomplete entries.

I am hoping to visit Shropshire Archives on the 14th, so will have a go at tracing him then. I've only previously dipped my toe into actual records, and that was mainly the census and directories, so this shall be interesting!

I intended to dig deeper with my Birkenhead lot the last time I was at Birkenhead Library, but it was flippin' freezin', so I went to the pub!

Thanks again Alison,

Sharron

[Wirral]

Hi Sharron
Is your CROXON family the one living at 36 Edgar St Birkenhead in the 1901 census? William, the head of the family, was born abt. 1855 at Prees, Shropshire. He is probably related to Ann , c. 1819 & maybe Betsey.
Just had a thought, maybe the couple you are looking for are Samuel SPENCER & Betsey CROXON. If they are not actually married when the children were born, then the children would be registered under the surname of the mother. They could even be the legitimate children of Mr CROXON (deceased) & Betsey.

I'm sure I've come across the name CROXON before, but I can't remember where.

[Sharron]

You've probably come across the name Croxon on my previous posts!

William at 36 Edgar Street is my great grand uncle, brother to my great grandfather, Richard.

You know, I hadn't thought of looking at the IGI data with Betsy being the Croxon (either by birth or by marriage). I was either assuming that the IGI was completely right or totally rubbish, not a bit of both.

I haven't had much luck just searching Ancestry on the given names, but I'll try again.

And I was going to check stuff out again on the IGI, but the website seems to have gone to pot.

Thanks for your ideas and pointers, and Alison, if you think on where you know the Croxon name from and it isn't me, do give me a shout, won't you!

Sharron

[Wirral]

Hi Sharron

What is the connection that you are looking for between your g,grandfather Richard & the notorious Samuel? Are they cousins?