Croxon puzzle Wem/Whitchurch

[almach]

There's this possible marriage for Samuel's mother which would explain why Samuel was known as both Croxon and Spencer.

Whitchurch Parish Church, 28 Dec 1862
Thomas Spencer, 50, bachelor, labourer, father John Spencer labourer
Ann Cruxon (spelling on index), 46, spinster, father John Croxon labourer.
I can't make out the witnesses names.
Thomas and Ann's address is Welsh's ????????

[whytebyker]

Courtesy of Find my Past.

Parish Church Whitchurch, June 11th 1877.

Samuel Croxon, 21, labourer, no father's name entered.
Betsy Sands, 20, father Thomas Sands labourer.
Witnesses Samuel Griffiths and ??????? Dudley.

Birth reg.
CROXON, SAMUEL (no MMN which usually indicates an illegitimate birth) -
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in WHITCHURCH Volume 06A Page 609

Hi Alma - thanks for your speedy assistance
I had already found the marriage you describe but also found another record in the same source, England Select marriages 1538-1973. On the 27th of May 1877 Samuel Croxon marries Betsy Sands in Whitchurch. The ref ID is item 6 p 88.
Would you know whether this might be a recording error - seems like such a coincidence.

Thanks

Gavin

[almach]

England Select marriages 1538-1973. On the 27th of May 1877 Samuel Croxon marries Betsy Sands in Whitchurch. The ref ID is item 6 p 88.

Gavin, that could be a banns record, without seeing the original it's not possible to tell, but the date is right for banns which were called each week for three weeks prior to marriage.

Have you found Ann Croxon/Spencer on census records prior to 1891, from memory, and my memory is rubbish, but I think I found a likely 1841 census record then nothing between 1841 - 1891.

[almach]

I'll leave this for now, if you can add anything of relevance that would be great, in particular census records for Ann Croxon/Spencer. Later, I'll take another look at census returns but I did invest a lot of time yesterday trying to find her with no luck but never say never. She has to be somewhere.

I may be confusing myself, (not difficult) but I think I found a record for an Ann Croxon/Thomas Spencer in 1855 alas I've tried to find it today but failed, it seemed to suggest they had a planned marriage which clearly didn't take place as they married in 1862.

[christanel]

I'll leave this for now, if you can add anything of relevance that would be great, in particular census records for Ann Croxon/Spencer. Later, I'll take another look at census returns but I did invest a lot of time yesterday trying to find her with no luck but never say never. She has to be somewhere.

I may be confusing myself, (not difficult) but I think I found a record for an Ann Croxon/Thomas Spencer in 1855 alas I've tried to find it today but failed, it seemed to suggest they had a planned marriage which clearly didn't take place as they married in 1862.

This one Alma? On ancestry but no image
Ann Croxon
Marriage Date - 10 June 1855
Marriage Place - Whitchurch, Shropshire, England
Spouse - Thomas Spencer
FHL Film Number - 1702245
Reference ID - item 5 p 55

On family search.org the transcripts says it is a marriage notice. Unfortunately the original image can only be viewed at a family history centre or affiliate library and they are closed at the moment.
Christina

[christanel]

Alma:- Have you found Ann Croxon/Spencer on census records prior to 1891, from memory, and my memory is rubbish, but I think I found a likely 1841 census record then nothing between 1841 - 1891.

This one? Easy to find when you have done the spade work Alma.
HO107 Piece 900 Book 12 Folio 54 Page 9
Prees Heath Shropshire.
Mary Pick(ril), (ert?) 60 (in occupation column says Widow but no occupation. Born in county? Yes
Ann Croxen 25 no occupation. Yes (looks like an 'e' not an 'o' on the image
Samuel Croxen 2 born in county? No
John Furber 5 born in county? Yes. Further up the page is a Furber family

There is a transcript of a baptism at Prees,Shropshire 3 March 1816 for an Ann Croxon with only the mother , Mary Croxon named.
Christina

[christanel]

familysearch.org
Marriage 27 October 1834 Prees, Shropshire
Mary Croxon to William Pickrill

Did she have a marriage prior to the above?
3 March 1823 Prees, Shropshire
John Wynn to Mary Croxon

Like you Alma still nothing for the later censuses. A wet long weekend here which explains why I am still in bed doing this.

Christina

[christanel]

The 1841 census has another Ann Croxon living in Prees age 20 and looks to be marked down as required so could be born 1817 - 1821.
Elizabeth Croxon age 55, Widow, Ann Croxon 20 and a Richard Croxon age 1 all born in county.
HO107 piece 900 book 12 folio 15 page 23

One to be aware of?
There is a baptism for a Richard Croxon or Wilkinson 5 May 1840 at Prees with the father John Wilkinson and mother Ann Croxon FHL Film Number: 503515, 506791
Christina

[Pam Downes]

Hi Alma - thanks for your speedy assistance
I had already found the marriage you describe but also found another record in the same source, England Select marriages 1538-1973. On the 27th of May 1877 Samuel Croxon marries Betsy Sands in Whitchurch. The ref ID is item 6 p 88.
Would you know whether this might be a recording error - seems like such a coincidence.

Thanks

Gavin

.

Earlier today there were not only blue skies over West Sussex, but there was also some extremely blue air as I lost a lengthy message. I will now try to remember everything I said.

It's not a recording error.
It is, however a lack of correct recording by you.
The line prior to 'item 6 p 88' says FHL Film Number 1702245

Prior to genealogy becoming the big business it is today, many years ago the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (its members more usually known as Mormons, with the Church name being shortened to LDS) filmed parish registers and other documents held in archives and record offices throughout the world.
Exactly what's on a film can be found by referring to the Catalog.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog
Think you will need to create an account (link top right-hand corner), but no credit card details are asked for.
Select search, film/fiche number.
Enter number, press search.
As you see, there are several films with records for Whitchurch, all of them different registers.

I wasted a LOT of time with one film, so I consider myself something of an expert looking at FHL films. Start by looking at the beginning of the film, to see if it lists what's on the film and what the item numbers are. It might say item 1 baptisms 1754-1812 Manchester St Frederick, item 2 burials Lincoln St Paul 1813-1837 etc.
Then you can gently fast forward through the pages until you see the pages relevant to the parish and type of register you want. Sometimes you find you've gone a bit too far forward, so you'll have to scroll back till you find the ones relevant to 'item 6'.
Alternatively, it there's no listing of the items then you'll have to make your own.
Start on page one, and a screen will come up telling you the parish and the relevant records in the section of film you're about to view. Again gently FF, stopping every twenty pages or so to see if you've still looking at the same parish/type of register, or if one or both have changed. Again, it's then a case of scrolling back till you find the screen page which tells you what's on the next section of film.
It sounds a bit of a faff, but it's easier to do than have explained, and once you get the hang of it, it's a doddle.

Christina has been busy while I've been re-writing this post, and has already told you about the registers being available at an FHC once lockdown ends. To find FHCs near you,
https://www.familysearch.org/help/fhcenters/locations/

More tips:
Page 88 might be the film page number in item 6 or it might be the number of the page in the register.
When you've found it, record which it is.
As Alma has already thought (and I agree) the 27 May entry is likely to be the first reading of the banns. 27 was a Sunday, and would mean subsequent banns read on 3 and 10 June. Just in time for the wedding on the 11th.

When at the FHC, you might be able to take copies of the film pages. If not make sure that you carefully record name of parish, type of register, page number, entry number, and exactly what the entry says (e.g. if the name is clearly spelt as Sammuel, that's what you transcribe)
Don't forget to look for other entries for the same name in all the other registers available on that film. You might very easily find the answers to a lot more questions.

Pam

[whytebyker]

Gavin, that could be a banns record, without seeing the original it's not possible to tell, but the date is right for banns which were called each week for three weeks prior to marriage.

Have you found Ann Croxon/Spencer on census records prior to 1891, from memory, and my memory is rubbish, but I think I found a likely 1841 census record then nothing between 1841 - 1891.

That's a good point Alma - I hadn't realised the banns might be included with the actual marriage info.

As for Ann Croxon - yes I have found her and have added her to my tree - to be explored further. I am currently looking at an 1891 census record for a Samuel Spencer with wife Betsy, an number of children and finally his widowed mother Ann Spencer (72).

But for now I am first trying to clear up the timeline I have for Samuel Spencer.

Ancestry indicates two records as relevant to my search for the father of Thomas Harry Croxon. These are the 1871 and 1881 census records where we find a Samuel Spencer aged 15 in reformatory and then later aged 24, imprisoned and married.

I had just begun to settle for him as the Spencer Croxon when I came across a Shrewsbury Trial record dated 18 October 1875 stating the sentence passed down to a "Samuel Spencer alias Croxon" is that he be imprisoned for 6 months for breaking into a warehouse. What is particularly interesting is that this 1875 entry states Samuel is 24 and married.

So it could be that we have two Samuel Spencer characters in the wider Whitchurch area, one a few years younger than the other, who were both into crime. Or one of them exaggerated or downplayed his age and marital status, or the records are wrong...

I am going to try again this evening to see if I can uncover more about this older Samuel Croxon character and will also dig deeper into the Ann Croxon records.


Today I discovered a property called The Lawns in Oswestry that was built by the Croxon family from Wrexham in the 1800's. It is on the corner of Smithfield Street and Church Street and currently houses Park Gate Florist plus a coffee shop. The 1881 census shows a number of Croxon family members living there including one Beatrice Croxon, aged 23, married, but without husband. I would have overlooked her but for the fact that in the 1901 census Samuel Spencer's wife is referred to as Beatrice instead of Betsy... That throws a spanner in the works https://www.british-genealogy.com/fo...cons/icon4.png

The strangest thing is that when I looked at the property on Google Maps I remembered that my wife and I went into that very same florist a few years ago when we visited Oswestry. The shop was about to shut but the florist was happy to chat with me about the area and he even gave me an Oswestry Churches calendar he had made as a fundraiser. How odd that I now find out the premises may well be part of my family history albeit it in a slightly complicated way!

Just out of interest, are you linked in some way to the Croxons?

All the best

Gavin