Missing death !!

[small76]

I am now driving myself insane trying to find my G G grandfather.

He was born in lincolnshire 1858, was a cattle dealer like his father at 22 on the 1881 census.
In 1882 he moved to Welshpool and got married. They moved around that area whilst having 6 children.
In the 1901 census all his family are living in welshpool apart from him, with his wife emma being head of the household and youngest daughter being only 9 months old. Although marital status says she is married not widowed !! Where is he?

I have fathomed he must have died late 1899 after conception of last child and 1917 which on his sons marriage cert it states he is deceased.

I have spent a small fortune checking each and every record during that time but he doesn't turn up at all. I have also taken into account spelling mistakes, but nothing.

If his family are all there in 1901, where could he have been? Any ideas at all, and where do i look?

[Wirral]

He may just have been away for the night, perhaps at a local market if he was a cattle dealer. Why not tell us his name & place of birth? Also any other details that may help, such as family names, ages, 1881 census etc.

[Geoffers]

He was born in lincolnshire 1858, was a cattle dealer......In the 1901 census all his family are living in welshpool apart from him, with his wife emma being head of the household and youngest daughter being only 9 months old. Although marital status says she is married not widowed !! Where is he?
Bearing in mind he was a cattle dealer, he may also have driven the cattle to/from where he purchased/sold them. If that was the case, he may have been sleeping rough with the cattle and so have been missed by the enumerator.

Geoffers

[small76]

I'm sorry i forgot to include that when he moved and married in Welshpool he became a farm labourer.
I think all this was much to his fathers disappointment as he was not included in the will.

And why can i not find out his date of death? He seems to be no where at all.

His name is Thomas Tong born In lincolnshire (st nicholas) 01/05/1858
married 24/07/1882 to Emma Howells in Welshpool (forden district),
lived and had 6 children in Welshpool area. I know he died before jan 1917.

[Wirral]

Either there are 2 Thomas Tongs, cattle dealers, or he is leading a mysterious double life. Here is one Thomas Tong, wife Emma, with his family in 1901 census, still in Lincoln, all with surname Tong, all born in Lincoln. No mention of Welshpool.

RG13/3063 page 6 folio 92 schedule 27, 75 Burton Road, St Nicholas, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
Tho. head M 42 cattle dealer, employer
Emma wife M 36
Mary A. dau 13
Harriett dau 12
Lucy dau 9
Emma dau 7
Thomas C.(?) son 3
Edith dau 2

[pejay]

hi there,
not sure if this will be of any use, but on ancestry.co.uk in the 1901 census for lincoln - st nicholas and st john there is a thomas tong aged 42 with wife emma, and also 6 children - lucy, harriet, mary, thomas, edith and emma, could they have moved back to lincoln?

[Wirral]

Not sure if there is a 2nd Thomas about anywhere, but there are definitely 2 Emma Tongs, each with 6 children (different names) in the 1901 census. Lincoln is the opposite side of the UK to Welshpool, so it is unlikely that there is any relationship between the 2 families. Which family contains your g,grandparent?

[small76]

My head is all a muddle.

i did spot that other thomas and Emma in lincoln and it is a coincidence that they lived in burton road, as his father and other siblings all bought houses in Burton road. My family had nearly the whole street.
But if he did have a double life another coincidence would be that he married another Emma as the other thomas and emma definitely lived in the welshpool area.
Maybe it was a double life thats why he wasn't included in his fathers will.

Oh i don't know how to sort this one out. Im only a novice starting out. Why can't it be straight forward :(

[kazrbutler]

Not sure if there is a 2nd Thomas about anywhere, but there are definitely 2 Emma Tongs, each with 6 children (different names) in the 1901 census. Lincoln is the opposite side of the UK to Welshpool, so it is unlikely that there is any relationship between the 2 families. Which family contains your g,grandparent?
It may be unlikely, but it is not impossible. I have found member of my family working as an agricultural labourer, who left the rest of the family near the Lincs border of Nottinghamshire and moved to Worcestershire. Census information can be a good indication of such movements, and family stories can indicate major movements even if the details are lost over the years.

If you haven't already, it is worth looking on FREEBMD using a phonetic search on the surname etc for deaths and seeing if anything there is a possibility. It doesn't generally go up to 1917 yet, but you might find something helpful. For instance there is one Thomas Tong listed as died in March quarter 1903 in Rhayader district aged 52. I found that actually searching the St Catherines Index itself in my local library was useful for those who proved elusive on indexes. With an uncommon surname, it is easier as there will be fewer records to look at even if you have a large number of years to work on.

Another thing to bear in mind is consistency of ages in the census. Some may be fairly accurate, but others can vary greatly from census to census, and you end up with a range of 10 years, or even more.

Where I have really hit a brick wall, I find that leaving things where they are and researching something else a big help. A newly available resource and / or a fresh mind can sometimes make all the difference. Also, with some of the index searches, new records may be entered and / or corrections made to badly transcribed records.

Hope this helps

Karen

[Wirral]

But straightforward is so boring! I suggest you look back to more recent dates & check what you know for definite. For instance, you say that the family owned most of Burton Road in Lincoln. Do you have evidence for that, such as BMD certificates documents, letters, personal knowledge, family still living there? How did you make a connection with the family in Welshpool? Do you have similar evidence for there as well? Do you have a copy of the will? Often if someone is being disinherited they will be mentioned but given a nominal sum "cut off with a shilling". If there is no mention of your relative in the will, & no firm ties with Lincoln, then there may be no connection with the family. Or maybe Thomas did have a double life!

[Wirral]

On freeBMD, marriage September quarter 1886 Bourn vol 7a page 559, Thomas Tong & Emma Creasey.

Looks like it is two separate families after all. I hope yours are the cattle dealers, as they are much easier to find in the censuses!

[small76]

You are all so very helpfull thank-you.

The i do not have solid evidence as yet that it is the Welshpool family, but from then on all of my family, myself included have been born in shropshire/Welshpool area. So it looks likely and will know for sure when a much needed bithe cert arrives on Tuesday.

I do have the Will and there is no mention of him at all, but do know he was his son. Very odd. must be a black sheep.

I would love to research other areas but would not know where to start. It is family dated around 1760 Nothing online i can find helps with this. Stumped.

[kazrbutler]

Out of interest, on the 1901 census, have you tried using alternatives to Shropshire in your search, including: Salop and Shrops?

Both seem to have been used, which could mean you are missing something.

Interestingly on 1901 census, there are some males with surname Tong born in Shropshire, of a similar age and older to that you suggest for Thomas. There are two many to list, but the following may be of interest - especially as there is definately some link between Shropshire and Lincolnshire with the name Tong, even if not yours!

William Tong 46 Born Salop Yockleton Living Shrops Lilleshall Labourer on farm
Thomas Tong 44 Born Shrops Overton Living Lincolnshire Bracebridge Planing Machine Iron

Counties written as shown in index.

I haven't full access to the 1901, but hope this might help point you in the right direction.

If not, what about the 1891 census? Shropshire isn't available on Freecen, but someone might know if it is available elsewhere - and you might have an idea where to look based on births of children around the time.

The tricky ones are more satisfying to find that those who stay in the same parish for centuries, but it doesn't stop it being frustrating!

Best wishes, Karen

[Wirral]

I've managed to find a Thomas Tong living in Burton Road, St Nicholas, Lincoln in every census from 1861 (age 3) to 1901. In the 1891 & 1901 censuses he is with wife Emma in Lincoln (+6 kids) & in the 1901 census there is an Emma (+6 different kids) at Middletown, Montgomeryshire. But I can't find another Thomas Tong who looks like he might be married to the Emma in Montgom. in any census. So is it a case of bigamy! :eek: Is that why he is not in the will?
According to the 1861 census & the IGI, Thomas Tong snr. & wife Mary Ann had at least 11 children in Lincoln (Edmund b 1841; Mary Anne b. 1843, Elizabeth b. 1845 died 1845; Elizabeth b. 1846; David b. 1848; Eliza b.1849; Maria b.1853 died 1857; Tom b.1854 died 1857; John Henry b.1856; Thomas b.1858; Sarah E. b. 1861). How many of these are named in the will?

[Colin Moretti]

Maybe it was a double life thats why he wasn't included in his fathers will. Perhaps he had had his share of any family fortune before his father died, for example, when he married.

Colin

[Pam Downes]

The plot thickens.
I couldn't understand why I couldn't find 'Welsh' Emma and the two elder children on the 1891 census. First I checked on FreeBMD that Thomas (aged 3 based on 1901 age) and John Mathew (aged 1) had ages and birth registration districts which tied in with details per 1901. Fitted.
Then I checked for a marriage between 1880 and 1889 of a Tong with spouse's name of Emma. September 1882 quarter, Forden (aka Montgomery) RD, Thomas Tong married Emma Howells. No definite Emma on 1881, but 1871 resulted in Emma, aged 10, living in (township)Wollaston, ecclesiastical parish 'part of Great Wollaston', which fits in quite nicely with 1901 details. Her parents are John and Sarah, both aged 52, census ref RG10/2765 f66 p12.
And what do I then find on the 1891?
RG12/2106 f53 p5
Great Wollaston
John HOWELLS, head, widr, 71, laborer agricultural, Salop Alberbury
Emma TONG, dau, m, 29, charwoman, Salop Alberbury
Lucy, g Dau, s, 9, Montgomeryshire Welshpool
Ellen, g Dau, s, 7, Salop Alberbury
Joseph, 5, s, Salop Alberbury
Thomas, 3, s, Montgomeryshire Welshpool
Mathew, 1, s, Salop Oswestry

Joseph, Mathew and Thomas all have 'do' written in the status box, thereby making them 'g Dau', though their ages have been written in the male column.
Hands up all those who would be surprised if I said Emma and the children had been indexed as Howells, which was why I couldn't initially find her. (Though had she been indexed as Toug, Tony, or Touy I would not have been surprised, as the writing is a bit iffy.)
Having got half-way through writing out the census details I found message number 4 in this thread with all the Forden marriage details on. That's twice in almost as many days that I've done that |banghead|

more thoughts and info to follow....

[Pam Downes]

Picking up on the marriage of Thomas Tong and Emma Creasey in Bourn RD September quarter 1886, and then tracing Emma on the 1871 census, you get:
RG10/3345 f71 p11
Ing Drove, Bicker
William Henry CREASEY, head, mar, 33, farming 142 acres acres employing 7 labourers and 1 boy, Sleaford Lincs
Harriet, wife, mar, 30, Great Ponton Lincs
Emma, dau, unm, 6, Dyke Lincs
Edith, dau, unm, 4, Bicker Lincs
Roland, son, unm, 3, Bicker Lincs

Can't find William, Harriet or Roland in 1881, but Emma is in Lincoln whilst Edith is with an uncle and aunt in Ruskington.

When you say that when Thomas married in 1917 he said his father was deceased do you mean the 'Welsh' Thomas? If so, there is the possibility that he's found out that his father is a bigamist and says he's dead to avoid answering any questions about him. So I would certainly look after 1917 for Thomas senior's death. If you have only considered deaths in the Welshpool/Wollaston area, then don't ignore any other Thomas Tong deaths elsewhere in the country, as to my mind things are definitely adding up to five.
What would be worth doing is to check exactly in which quarters of which years the children of the two Emmas were registered. I wouldn't mind having a little bet that none of them occur in the same quarter of the same year. :D
It would also be worth trying to find the baptisms of the children for whom you don't have birth certificates to find out what occupation is given for Thomas.

Have fun :)

Pam Downes

[Geoffers]

i do not have solid evidence as yet that it is the Welshpool family, but from then on all of my family, myself included have been born in shropshire/Welshpool area. So it looks likely
I think this is a dangerous assumption to make. I was born in Portsmouth, my dad was and so was his father - but I am not related to the Hampshire family with the same surname.

As Wirral suggested, start with what you know and work back, gaining evidence from documents.

As the problem is with the person who you think may be your gt-gt-grandfather - come forward a generation. Do you have the marriage and birth certificates for your gt-grandfather. What information do they provide? Where was he living and who were his parents? Does he show up in any census return?
Geoffers

[Alan Tong]

The Thomas Tong born in 1858 died on 12 September 1936, and left a will to Emma Tong (Wife), Thomas Creasey Tong (son) (Cattle dealer) and Albert William Kime (Coal Merchant.)

Emma died on 14 April 1941, and she left her will to Mary Ann Tong. (Daughter, Spinster.)

He was in Lincolnshire on the 1901 Census.

1901 Census: RG13/3063 page 6 folio 92 schedule 27, 75 Burton Road, St Nicholas, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
Thomas. head M 42 cattle dealer, employer
Emma wife M 36
Mary A. dau 13
Harriett dau 12
Lucy dau 9
Emma dau 7
Thomas C.(?) son 3
Edith dau 2


I believe the two Thomas Tongs are separate.