Storthes Hall Lunatic Asylum

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

I'm getting lost a few times this morning! A couple of days ago, I read a message somewhere from Patrisia? or Pam? about accessing Workhouse Records, regardless of the 100 year rule.

Whoever it was, said that if you could prove you were of direct descent, then permission for access would be granted. After providing proof, this lady managed to obtain permission. My question is ...... what proof did you have to provide please? :confused:

[Patrisia]

Sorry Diane, not me but it sounds interesting!

[uksearch]

I'm getting lost a few times this morning! A couple of days ago, I read a message somewhere from Patrisia? or Pam? about accessing Workhouse Records, regardless of the 100 year rule.

Whoever it was, said that if you could prove you were of direct descent, then permission for access would be granted. After providing proof, this lady managed to obtain permission. My question is ...... what proof did you have to provide please? :confused:
Probably birth certificates etc...I check with the Archives here.

UK

[Peter Goodey]

Not knowing doesn't usually inhibit people on these forums* so I'll weigh in and say that I have a vague notion that if you can prove that the individual is dead, you have a right to know what the records say about him or her. That needn't neccessarily be the same as having free reign to browse through the files.

However I think you need to contact the repository concerned because I suspect that they all operate their policies differently.

*I didn't mean this thread, apart from my contribution.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Many thanks for the replies, I was just trying to find out from the lady concerned about proof, as it's the easiest option! ;)

Yes Peter, I'll now have to write to the Archives at Wakefield, as they hold the records for Storthes Hall. It's just that they are so slow in replying .... it was about a week last time I asked something!

Oh well, patience is a virtue!

[Pam Downes]

Just to confirm that it wasn't me either Diane.
I'm with Peter as regards contacting the depository which holds the records you need. Records less than 100 years old may be available. For instance Lincolnshire FHS have transcribed the death registers for various Workhouses up to the 1930s-1940s, and these give details such as the address of the person, cause of death, date and place of burial.

Pam Downes

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Many thanks for replying Pam, I have written to ask about the records and would access be granted.

The only niggle I have now, is wondering where on earth I read this lady's message ...... it's somewhere on these Forums! If ever I stumble across it again, it will be nice to know her name, seeing as it wasn't you or Patrisia as I thought. :D

[uksearch]

They tell me here that proof of death and the completion of The Third Party Data Subject Access Request Form is enough. At Liverpool they check the GRO index for proof of death, here they need a certificate.I can't speak for anywhere else.


UK

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Thankyou UK for your further info, so now I'll have to wait and see what proof Wakefield Archives wants ...... and wait ..... and wait .... and wait .... ;)

This email received from them:

Thank you for your email.

This office will be closed from Monday 7 November to Friday 11 November. During this time staff will be working on improving access to the local authority collections in our care.

We will continue to deal with urgent emails during this period. General enquiries will be dealt with when the office re-opens on Monday 14 November.

If you wish to make an appointment to visit the Archives, or if your enquiry is urgent please telephone us on +44 (0)1924 305980

For all other enquiries please write to West Yorkshire Archive Service, Wakefield HQ, Newstead Road, Wakefield, WF1 2DE or fax us on +44 (0)1924 305983.

Thank you

[AnnB]

It's called s*d's law, Diane :o

Best wishes
Ann

[uksearch]

Just another point, perhaps an obvious one. The information required will amongst other data that is restricted to you, therefore a member of the Institution will have to do the research.

UK

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi UK,

Now I hadn't thought of that, as I often can't see what's staring me in the face! However, I'm not going to fork out a small fortune for a Researcher's fee and that's for sure. I really would like to know about John William FAWCETT .... but not that much! ;)

[uksearch]

Just another point, perhaps an obvious one. The information required will amongst other data that is restricted to you, therefore a member of the Institution will have to do the research.

UK
I should have written that a member of the library staff would have to do the research...perhaps I've got institutions on the brain and need some time in one:) .

UK

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi again UK,

I take it that it's still the Staff who have to do the research, in which case, I won't be able to find out about John. There is a research fee payable at Wakefield Archives if you want them to look up anything on your behalf ..... if Wakefield Council set the fee, then it will be about £30 an hour! :eek:

[uksearch]

Hi again UK,

I take it that it's still the Staff who have to do the research, in which case, I won't be able to find out about John. There is a research fee payable at Wakefield Archives if you want them to look up anything on your behalf ..... if Wakefield Council set the fee, then it will be about £30 an hour! !:eek:
Ah...maybe not.I have just checked here.If it is only a relatively short search they would be obliged to do the search free of charge under The Freedom Of Information Act.Maybe worth a dose of looking at:) ?

UK

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

You've just spoiled my day! I'm only joking with you of course! |biggrin|
I've just received an email from Wakefield Archives (copy in my next message) and I came here to head this message of mine as *It's a case of who-you-know*. Then I was going to say that it was either that, or more likely my surname, which is a real pest at times, with all the jokes about fish etc. but it's funny how people do remember the name!

Anyway, I'll still write what I was going to, before I read your message! ;)

My first trip to the Archives was way back in 1994, before family history became so popular. No appointments needed, they didn't close for lunch in those days, so I went at 1.00p.m. until closing time a couple of days a week. At most, there were about twenty people in there, but sometimes just half a dozen of us, with lots of empty desks!

A young man called Geoff 'signed' me in the first time I went and over the years, we used to chat as well and I knew about his family etc. Guess who replied to my email?

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Copy email:
Hello,

It's good to hear from you again!
We do hold the records of Storthes Hall here – and there are casenotes to be found for John William Fawcett in the hospital casebooks – his details given as No 896, admitted 14 Mar 1911, age 35 and died 7 Oct 1923 on his index card.

However, there is still a 100 year closure imposed on patients’ records. You will need to contact Christine Parker, Records Manager, St Lukes Hospital, Crosland Moor, Huddersfield HD5 5RG – tel 01484 343900 – for written permission for access. Once you have received the permission you could send it to us and we could cost how much photocopies would come to, if you required these. Contact us again when we can be of further help to you.

Regards,

Geoff Brown
Archivist



West Yorkshire Archive Service, Wakefield Headquarters
Newstead Road
Wakefield

[Peter Goodey]

This looks as if it should be the definitive advice to archivists:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/archives/advice/pdf/nhs_registers.rtf

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Peter,

I've just read the link you posted and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming then that if I were to go in person to the Archives, after handing over the letter of permission, someone would open the record book at my relevant pages. They would stay with me at all times to make sure that I didn't look at any other entries.

Seeing as I can't go in person and I told Wakefield Archives this in my email ...... as it will probably be Geoff who will be looking at the pages and not me ..... then written permission isn't necessary?

I phoned Christine Parker, a very pleasant lady, and she understood why I want to access the records to find out the truth! She asked my relationship to John (my Grandfather's brother) and his date of birth, which I have of course, but I don't have a certificate as I didn't need one! No mention of me having to get a copy either.

I have his date and place of burial, the record said that he died in Storthes Hall, but I didn't know his date of death, but Geoff gave me that, so that was lucky! I gave her the rest of the info provided by Geoff of course, so then she just asked for my full name, address and telephone number.

She is sending me a letter of permission! |woohoo|

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

I want to know why John Fawcett ended up in a lunatic asylum, because of all the stories and lies which were told to my late Aunt Joyce, who was John's niece.

She gave me all my *start off* points for researching my family history and she was told that John, aged twelve years, after a Teacher threw a blackboard rubber at his head, he started having fits and then died shortly afterwards.

Just before I left Yorkshire, I went to Huddersfield Library to look up burial records for the Fawcett family in Dewsbury Cemetery, to my horror I found that John was buried in 1923, in the same grave as his Father. I was very upset and thought that he had been *pushed* into an Asylum aged twelve, just because he had fits!

However, I was very shocked to find him on the 1901 Census, a Carpet Weaver and still living at home with his Parents ...... so now I want to know The Truth!

[Peter Goodey]

"Seeing as I can't go in person and I told Wakefield Archives this in my email ...... as it will probably be Geoff who will be looking at the pages and not me ..... then written permission isn't necessary?"

No; I think it means that you need the written permission before Geoff can pass anything on to you. From the email you quoted, it sounds as if Geoff already has looked at it!

Actually I've got one like that I'll have to pursue sometime. My grandmother's sister was apparently committed to an asylum for threatening her mother with a kitchen knife. A teenage tantrum perhaps. But I don't know what asylum or where so first of all I'll have to motivate myself to carry out a fairly lengthy search of the death indexes.

So thanks for doing the pathfinding, Diane. It will all be useful to me eventually.

[Peter Goodey]

PS The document I described as "definitive" very obviously isn't!


Someone needs to rummage around and see if there has been any specific advice issued following the introduction of the FoI Act.

[Peter Goodey]

Just for the sake of completeness, and because it deals (sort of) with Diane's concern, here's a PS to the RTF file I posted earlier:-


We have since encountered some questions from Archivists about how the information can be transmitted whilst ensuring that the closed information remains protected. There are various examples of how this could be done:

• Verbally passing on the information
• Transcribing the relevant sections
• Giving a photocopy of the "open" information to the enquirer,blanking out any "closed" information which may appear onthe copy
• Allowing the enquirer to see the original document, but binding/typing up the "closed" pages and supervising very closely.

Catherine Redfern, Archive Inspection

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Peter :)

Thankyou for correcting my assumptions about written permission and I hope that you manage to find out more about your Grandmother's sister, sometime in the future. I hope that she didn't spend the rest of her life in the asylum.

Christine Parker told me yesterday, that she was appalled at just how many young girls were committed in the past, by their Fathers, for having a child out of wedlock ....... they remained there until they died. |shakehead

Apparently, Storthes Hall is now a residential building for Student's ...... I wouldn't like to live there, not with the 'ghosts' of poor, unhappy inmates *in the atmosphere*.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

I've just received a letter, enclosing another letter addressed to The West Yorkshire Archives Service in Wakefield, signed by Christine Parker (Medical Records Manager).

Dear Sir,

I hereby authorise access to file information to be given to Ms Diane Grant-Salmon with regard to her Grandfather's brother, Mr. John William Fawcett, who was a patient in Storthes Hall Hospital and died there on 7th. October 1923. Your Ref. 896.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

I've just received photocopies of John's casebook notes, from Wakefield Archives! Unfortunately, the last of his notes were transferred to a new casebook in 1921 and sadly, that casebook has not survived. However, the copy Death Register for 7 October 1923 gives the cause of death as Hemiplegia ....... perhaps someone knows what this is please ...... in English?!

I have to sign a Copyright Declaration, so I assume that I'm not allowed to divulge what the notes say, but something Peter said in a message somewhere on BG Forums, about something, rings a few bells! ;)

Another question please ...... in Medical jargon, does an e with a line above it, instead of below it like this e have any special meaning when linking two medical conditions together?

[Patrisia]

Hemiplegia is the paralysis following a stroke.
Not sure about the 'e' but just 'and' rings a bell, as in 'et'

[Lynda Cunningham]

Hi Diane

http://www.answers.com/hemiplegia&r=67

best wishes
Lynda

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Thank you both for telling me the cause of death (and the link Lynda) ..... there is mention of John having a stroke earlier, so this one must have killed him.

Patrisia ..... re *et* ..... just remembered that et is latin for and! Well it was ages ago that I passed my GCE in it! :D

[Peter Goodey]

"I have to sign a Copyright Declaration, so I assume that I'm not allowed to divulge what the notes say"

Copyright declarations are pretty standard with any records office - at least when dealing with them by post. What they normally mean is that you can tell who you like what you like about the contents but you can't publish a copy of the actual document(s).

[Linda]

Hi Diane

I'm really pleased that you were able to obtain a copy of John's casebook notes:)


et is latin for and........... I passed my GCE in it
Does that mean you can translate that 500 year old Will that I just acquired? :D

Linda

[Ron Leech]

Hi Diane

Glad you got that sorted out.

Another site for medical terminology that I have found very helpful in the past is
http://www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Diane
Does that mean you can translate that 500 year old Will that I just acquired? :D
Linda

You are joking of course Linda! :D Good luck with the translation!



Hi Diane

Glad you got that sorted out.

Another site for medical terminology that I have found very helpful in the past is
http://www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm

Many thanks for your good wishes Ron and the new link. :)

[tonybee]

Hi Diane: I have just stumbled across the incredible site by doing a Google search for Hanover Square, Dewsbury, and finding an earlier post in which you said your ancestors lived there. So did mine, just a few doors away - the Newsome family (my grandfather and great-grandfather). What do you know about Hanover Square? All information would be welcomed. Regards, Tony

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Tony,

I'm sorry but I don't have any info about the area |oopsredfa ........ but as a small recompense for my ignorance, below is a transcription for your family in 1911. (I was curious, so I looked them up in 1901 to see what number Hanover Square they were living at. No: 8 and my lot at No: 2)

My lot are still there in 1911 too, so they must have known each other fairly well?

1911 Census: Ref: RG14-PN27303-SN409
Dwelling: No 8 Back Hanover Square, Dewsbury

Jonathan NEWSOME (60) Head Marr Dyers Labourer at Yarn Dyers b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Elizabeth Frances (58) Wife Marr b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Emily WRAY (30) Daughter Widow Leeder at Woollen Mill b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Edmund NEWSOME (22) Son Single Yarn Spinner b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Jane (18) Daughter Single b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Harold (16) Son Single Cloth Finisher b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Edmund WRAY (8) Grandson b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Percy (6) Grandson b. Dewsbury, Yorkshire

Completed years the present marriage has lasted: 39 yrs.
Children born alive to the present marriage:
Total Children born alive: 10
Children still living: 8
Children who have died: 2

Three rooms at this address
Householder's Schedule signed by: Emily Wray

Note: Alongside the entry for Emily WRAY, 2 children born alive 2 children still living ...... crossed out in red (by the enumerator I suppose?)

[Peter_uk_can]

Re Stothes Hall.

Please forgive my digression on the subject Stothes Hall. I was born and brought up in Barnsley, not that far from the above place. I can recall that as a kid I was threatend more than once with being sent to "Stothes Hall" if I didn't "buck my ideas up at school"

All I knew is that it wasn't associated with somewhere I would want to go.

I know that modern life may shudder at this, but things were different then. That's all. Thanks... Peter.

[tonybee]

Many thanks Diane .. a very thorough response that adds to my existing knowledge. Hanover Square sounds such a "posh" address but obviously wasn't. One person not on the 1911 Census was son Herbert (my grandfather) so somehow managed not only to escape Dewsbury but also change trade and ended up in Gillingham (Kent) as an electrician in Chatham Dockyard ... and married to a woman from Sussex!
All inpout on life and conditions in Dewsbury in the 1880s onwards is welcome. And I'm still searching for the Hooleys|banghead|. Cheers, Tony

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

|help| please?

I have a sub for the 1911 Census and I have searched for my John William FAWCETT on that site, also on the official 1911 Census site, using his full name, no middle name and finally initials of JF and even FJ in case they were reversed, Patient & Inmate. John was admitted on the 14 March 1911.

I have tried place of birth (Heckmondwike) and just County of birth, years of birth 2+/- with no luck on anything.

Then I tried to search for Census Place and I know I must be doing something wrong, as I can't find Storthes Hall, searching for Asylum/Hospital/Institution in Huddersfield Reg District. I went to Genuki looking for info, then I did a Google search for it ...... found some smashing photos, but I still can't find the 1911 Census page!

My head is now sore from banging it against a brickwall, |banghead| so will some kind person take pity on me and see if they can find it please?

[Barbara Wilkinson]

Just a quick reply Diane - I have not found it, but did see somewhere that it was also known as 'North Spring House', Kirkburton. You may already know this of course :)
Seemingly that was often given as the address on birth and death certificates to save embarassment to families.
I still could not see it on 1911, but only had a minute to look!

[Lizzy9]

Hi Diane,

To find Storthes Hall on the 1911 census :

Search using the address option, leave street name blank, in 'residential place' enter Thurstonland and West Yorkshire for County, press search, scroll to bottom of list where you'll see 'other establishments' click on this and there you'll find Storthes Hall. Unfortunately, all the residents have been enumerated by initials only, however in many cases their occupation and place of birth has been entered.

Good luck, I hope you can determine which is your relative.

Lizzy:)

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Just a quick reply Diane - I have not found it, but did see somewhere that it was also known as 'North Spring House', Kirkburton. You may already know this of course :)
Seemingly that was often given as the address on birth and death certificates to save embarassment to families.
I still could not see it on 1911, but only had a minute to look!

Hi Barbara :)

Thank you for looking for me and I didn't know that name, but I did try Royd's Hall from a tip on one site after searching, but still no result.

From the photos I found yesterday, it looks to have been a horrible place and like Peter in a previous message ...... my Big Bruv and I were threatened with Storthes Hall if we were naughty. Not that I was ever as naughty as him though!

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Lizzy |bowdown| |bowdown| |bowdown|

Thank you so much for telling me how to find Storthes Hall in the index, as I would never have found it without you. I tried Kirkburton in a search, but I wouldn't have thought of Thurstonland in a million years!

I'm very pleased to tell you that I did find him, but not from the initials in the index ..... they were listed in reverse order as F,KW - but on the census image, the initials are very clearly written as JWF (record held by TNA, Crown Copyright).

John William FAWCETT was born 15 April 1875 in Heckmondwike and on all previous census returns, his age was listed as 5, 15 and 25 so 35 on this one, although the birth year says 1876. He never married and his occupation in 1891 and 1901 was Carpet Weaver.

You will never really know how grateful I am to you for finding him for me. He was my maternal Grandfather's brother and he and all the rest of his siblings told lies to their children about John.

When I started researching the family in 1994, my Aunt told me that John had died aged 12 from fits. I was horrified to find out years later from burial records, that he didn't die until 1923! Thanks to staff at Wakefield Archives, I managed to get his case notes and he did have epilepsy. My Aunt was born in 1916 but she died before I could tell her about John.

He was *put away* and forgotten about I suppose, but there must have been a note somewhere about him, because he was buried in Dewsbury Cemetery in the same grave as his Father, who died 8 years before him. Anyway, I will never forget about him and neither will anybody else who has contacted me re the Fawcett family ....... as I have given them the information. :)

Many thanks again.

[Lizzy9]

Hi Diane,

I'm pleased you were able to identify John on the 1911 census.

How sad that John was placed in an asylum because he suffered with epileptic fits, poor chap.

It must be some comfort to know John is buried with his dad.

By the way, Royds Hall was a Grammar School in Marsh, Hudd's, and is still a High School - so far as I'm aware it's never had any association to Storthes Hall.

Lizzy :)

[karen wade]

hi diane just been looking up my family tree name which is newsome and i think we might have a connection has my grandad was called edmund ,and is father was called johnathan they lived at westtown.and on the marriage certificate my great grandad was a dyers labourer.i myself have lived in dewsbury all my life . edmund had 2 sons and 1 daughter.hope this helps with your research . thanks karen.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Karen,

Welcome to British Genealogy forums and I hope that you can find out more about your family.Unfortunately, it is Tony who has connections to you, not me, but he seems to have 'disappeared'!

His last time here was on the 03 December last year, but hopefully, a copy of your message will have turned up in his mail inbox at home ...... as it did in mine. Fingers crossed for you that he still has this thread as part of his subscribed threads and he checked the box for: Notify me if a reply is made to this thread, as I did.

[tonybee]

I have been emailed with news of a posting from Karen Wade regarding Newsomes in Dewsbury but for the life of me cannot find it on this thread, which is where I was directed. From the brief note received it would seem we have common ancestry (via Johnathon Newsome of West Town) and I'd love to make contact. :) tony

[tonybee]

Hi Karen: I've found you! Yes, Johnathon is my great-great-grandfather and I have amassed quite a bit of information about the family including inquest reports into two tragic deaths (at the mill and down the mine). Tony

[karen wade]

hi tony nice to hear from you ,iam a newcomer to brit gen my father was the son of edmund and i am quite interested sharing your information of the family as we know little of them. we have a few family living in the dewsbury area.look forward to hearing from you.karen

[karen wade]

hi diane, just to let you know i have had a message from tony regarding the newsome family. hopefully i will get to know a bit more about my family.karen.

[tonybee]

Hi Karen: Edmund is my great-uncle. The entire tree is on Ancestry.co.uk.
I am in the process of writing a memoir but it has been put toone side lately because of other work. I did visit Dewsbury earlier this year (amid the snow) to carry on my research and sadly found that most of the places where the family lived have been obliterated.
Johnathon's father, John Newsome, was killed in an accident at the mill in 1868 and I have the complete coroner's notes of the inquest.
One of his sons, Joseph (Edmund's brother) was killed in a pit accident in 1912, and again I have the coroner's report.
I am very keen to get some background information on the living conditions in Dewsbury in the 1800s plus any other details and/or pictures.
There was a bit of a mystery about Fanny Newsome who married the elusive Major (that's his name, not his rank) Hooley and I'd love to know more about him.
Hope to hear from you.

[karen wade]

Hi tony thanks for the information you have shared with me, you seem to be doing well with your researching.i tired to get in to view the family tree but dont know how to get it up.i am learning at the moment so it is all a bit new to me.edmund was married to eleanor my grandma on the 12th of june 1916 at the parish church of westown.edmunds sons were called clifford and arthur and is daughter was called ethel.arthur as 2 daughters ,clifford had 3 sons and 1 daughter.and ethel as 1 son and 1 daughter.i will see if i can help you with information on the 1800s hope to hear from you .

[tonybee]

It's been a long time since I was here and much has happened in between with the Newsome tree being expanded into those of the Hooleys, Brettons, Wrays, Gates, Britt and my own Berry tree. The end result has been the very recent publication of my book From Paupers To iPads - a Journey Across Seven Generations.
Yet that is not the end; the explorations continue - and so do the questions.
Today I received a death certificate for grand-uncle Harold Newsome who died in North Spring House, Kirkburton, in 1975. Was the old Stothes Hall Asylum still being used as "recently" as this? Or had it been modernised by then?

[MichaelH]

I looked up this thread because my aunt, Elsie Traves, worked as a nurse at Storthes Hall from about 1940 to the late 1960s. I can remember as a small child being taken to a Christmas party there in the early 50s. For a while I lived in Highburton and met a few patients but it was not until I came across this that I realised what a huge institution it was.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/articles/2008/05/12/storthes_hall_feature.shtml

[BayHorse]

Today I received a death certificate for grand-uncle Harold Newsome who died in North Spring House, Kirkburton, in 1975. Was the old Stothes Hall Asylum still being used as "recently" as this? Or had it been modernised by then?

I think it closed in the early '90s, off the top of my head. Then sold to the University of Huddersfield for student accomodation.



...Apparently, Storthes Hall is now a residential building for Student's ...... I wouldn't like to live there, not with the 'ghosts' of poor, unhappy inmates *in the atmosphere*.

Diane, it wasn't just the one building. Most of it was completely demolished (see Google images for an aerial shot of the grounds, before the new flats were built). Only the old admin building remains, and that is behind chain-link fencing and guarded by a dog patrol. The new student accomodation covers quite a big area - my daughter went to live there in 2007 when she went away to uni; the flats are bright and comfortable. She loved living there - her flat was in the 'North Spring' block. There was, however, no denying the 'atmosphere' in certain parts of the grounds.

Imagine our shock when we discovered only recently that my 'missing' great-grandmother had actually ended her days in Storthes Hall.

We've been back to visit the burial ground at Thurstonland to pay our respects. Such a sad place - the asylum graves are in a square of field behind the village church, and a fitting memorial was put up this summer, at the gateway to the field.