Edmonds from Norwich

[robinadexter]

I seek enlightenment on two matters please:
1. the origins of one Samuel EDMONDS who, according to census entries (1851 to 1881) was born in Norwich about 1803. Sadly, no Parish is mentioned

His probable son, my great grandfather Benjamin EDMONDS, was born c.1827 in Newmarket (and I cannot find his birth/baptism either, despite stalwart efforts by myself and SKSs) but, by 1851 Samuel, a cabinet maker and his wife Sarah (b. Guildford c. 1802) were in Somers Town, St. Pancras and they lived the rest of their lives in what is now London. 1851 finds them in the same house, though separate household, as James EDMONDS (born c 1796), who may be a brother. Perhaps he rings a bell for someone?
Samuel died in 1881 and Sarah in 1882.

2. In 1861 I have found Sarah EDMONDS in St. Mark's hospital in Finsbury and Samuel EDMONDS in the Metropolitan convalescent home (well, I am pretty sure it is Sam, although it says 'J' EDMONDS ... everything else fits).
They may have been involved in an accident or suffered concurrent/the same illness. Are such details discoverable? It would be interesting.

Thanks for reading this anyway.
Robina

[Wirral]

No sign of Samuel, but in 1841 there is a Benjamin Edmonds, male servant in Benhall, Suffolk HO107/1031/2 page 14 folio 11, age 13, born in the county.

[robinadexter]

We can't go on meeting like this, Wirral!

Yes, I have young Ben in 1841 and I am pretty sure that he's 'mine'. He had gone to the Smoke by 1851 and became a draper's assistant but, unlike hid dad, returned to Suffolk to marry and settle, moving only as far as Essex, eventually.
Cheers
Robina

[Geoffers]

1. the origins of one Samuel EDMONDS who, according to census entries (1851 to 1881) was born in Norwich about 1803. Sadly, no Parish is mentioned
EDM(O/U)NDS is not too common in Norfolk and less so in Norwich.

The 1851 census transcript shows an Elizabeth EDMONDS aged 50, bn Norwich and living in Thompson Yard, St.Edmund (HO107/1813 f142 p25)

There is a second family (EDMUNDS) in St.Michael Coslany - HO107/1812 f262 p21 - though here only the children are born Norwich 1832-48. The parents shown born in Gillingham (father) and Loane, Sfk (mother) - so perhaps this may be discarded.

No trace of EDMONDS in the 1830 Pigot's Directory for Norwich, or the Rosary Cemetery index, or Chase's 1783 Norwich Directory; and only one reference to the name in the index to Norwich City Officers.
continued......

[Geoffers]

part 2...

So the feeling that I am geting is that this was a family who moved to Norwich, or a nearby parish for only a short period before moving on.

I can only suggest initially trying St.Edmund's and adjacent parishes for a baptism of Samuel.

In searching the census returns, especially the 1851, are there any other EDMONDS/EDMUNDS living anywhere near to Samuel, who came from Norfolk/Suffolk?


2. In 1861 I have found Sarah EDMONDS in St. Mark's hospital in Finsbury and Samuel EDMONDS in the Metropolitan convalescent home. They may have been involved in an accident or suffered concurrent/the same illness. Are such details discoverable?
If involved in an accident which was newsworthy, there may be some record in a newspaper. Otherwise, in my experience, there are few surviving recods of illness for individuals - but - I have not used London records and someone with more knowledge of these locally may provide better news.

Geoffers

[robinadexter]

Thanks Geoffers,
As a colleague of mine once said 'Although unable to lighten my darkness, you have at least indicated the deeper shadows'!
The James Edmonds (55) in the same house as Samuel (49) in 1851 was also born in Norwich as was his wife Mary (59), which was why I thought that the men might be brothers.
So, adopting your logic, the family must have been in Norwich for at least six years. However, I think that you may well be right about their moving on. Sam was a cabinet maker and James a carpenter - perhaps they moved to London* for better trade opportunities. Maybe, even worked together. But of course, I can't look in the censuses to discover their parents coz they could be living/born anywhere!
(* well, that is after Sam and Sarah paused in Newmarket to have Benjamin!!)
Slippery folk, ancestors!
Cheers
Robina

[robinadexter]

P.S. I have just checked IGI for James EDMONDS and found a birth 9 Mar and baptism 30 Mar 1796 at Tabernacle-Countess of Huntingdons, Norwich: James, son of James and Elizabeth. I have not come across this church before (and half my maternal ancestry comes from Norwich). Is it 'established'?
Do you have access to parish records, Geoffers (or anyone else). Does Samuel lurk in those records too, I wonder, circa 1803??
The thot plickens.
Oh, and yes, I shall try the newspapers for accident reports in 1860/61. ta.
All the best,
Robina

[Pam Downes]

Hi Robina,
The IGI entry for James' birth and baptism was taken by the LDS from the 'PRs' in so far as the Tabernacle was a non-conformist place of worship. The births and baptisms have been transcribed from 1752 - 1837
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=filmhitlist&columns=*%2C180%2C0&filmno=0825332
(if that doesn't link very well then just click on the source call number at the bottom of James' IGI entry)
If you have an LDS FHC nearby, then you could order in the film the make sure that they haven't missed a Samuel from the transcription.
James appears to have a sister Elizabeth who was also baptised in the Tabernacle in 1805, and then another family of Edmonds have their children baptised between 1818 and 1823. (To copy how I found this out, on James' IGI entry, click on the batch number at the bottom of the entry, then enter Edmonds in the surname, click search.)

Not quite sure where you'd go from here because non-conformist records can be difficult to trace.
I would agree that Samuel and James could well be brothers. My theory based on the fact that they are neighbours in 1851, born in same place (albeit a large one!), and are in similar trades - cabinet maker and carpenter.

Pam Downes

[Geoffers]

Tabernacle-Countess of Huntingdons, Norwich: James, son of James and Elizabeth. I have not come across this church before (and half my maternal ancestry comes from Norwich). Is it 'established'?
Do you have access to parish records, Geoffers (or anyone else).
If you use a serarch engine to look for 'Countess of Huntingdon Connexion' you'll find lots of sites with odd bits of information about the group which I think is now part of the Evangelical Alliance. Sorry, but I don't have access to the records of these chapels.

As to James and Samuel both being concerned with woodworking - I can't help feeling that this may be the link to move forward. A skilled worker of this nature would have been apprenticed and possibly subsequently accepted as a freeman; there is likely to have been a will or two in the family.

continued....

[Geoffers]

part 2.....
The NFHS published a book of freemen of Norwich sometime ago, they have a copy in their library (if you're a member you can ask for a lookup). There may be an indenture surviving somewhere (The SoG have a collection if you're ever in London).

It may be worth searching NROCAT http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/dservea/Index.htm
to see if there are any possible references. It includes an index to local wills and there is of course Documents online from TNA http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/
which may show an EDMONDS who is connected.

I'll have a browse of my books and a think about any other suggestions over a cuppa later this morning.

Geoffers

[robinadexter]

Thanks Pam and Geoffers,
I feel a visit to my cousin near Norwich coming on! It may not be til 2006, but when I am headed for the Archives, I shall post here offering to do lookups for the first bidders. If there's likely to be owt I can do for you (and anyone else who has responded kindly to my various requests here) I shall prioritise it.
Meanwhile, I have been fascinated by all the info and suggestions, esp. the Countess of Huntingdon's history (relevant to me and mine, or not) and shall probably toddle off to Barrow in Furness LDS F.H. Centre to see if I can find young Sam, after all. And as I am a member of Norfolk FHS, I shall follow up your suggestions there, G.
Cheers
Robina