Geography North Wales

[Donald]

I’m trying to locate a birth/baptism record for my great grandfather Edward Ellis who immigrated to Australia.
On Edward Ellis’ marriage certificate, from Australia, he states his birth place as New Market, Flint, Wales and his parents to be Edward J Ellis and Elizabeth Hughes.
On my G Grandfather’s daughters birth certificate his place of birth is given as Hollywell, Flintshire, N. Wales.
Edward’s parents, Edward J Ellis and Elizabeth Hughes, marriage is recorded on the Bishops Transcripts as having taken place at; Dioceses of Bangor, Llanbeblig, County of Carnarvan. I later found a baptism of an older sibling of Edward's, Richard Ellis born to Edward J and Elizabeth 18 July, 1819 on this same film.
I have searched the bishop’s Transcripts for Newmarket and Hollywell without success. The baptism should have taken place c,1830.
Can some kind soul explain to me the geographical relationship between; Llanbeblig, Newmarket, Hollywell and the parish of St Asaph. St Asaph appears on some BTS records I have been searching.
I must confess to being a bit confused with these names and the possible proximity to each other.
Donald

[Lynda Cunningham]

Hello Donald

This may help a little with the geography?

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Holywell/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CAE/Llanbeblig/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/StAsaph/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Trelawnyd/

besy wishes
Lynda

[Donald]

Thanks Lynda,
I'll check out those Genuki sites, could be most helpful. Should have thought of that myself!
Still interested in a reply from anyone who has had experience in searching within the areas mentioned. Perhaps they are all covered within one diocese and one set of registers? Or could there be another source where birth/baptisms can be serarched?
Donald

[Wirral]

Hi Donald
When you look at the links that Lynda has given you, you will see why the family in Bangor are unlikely to be related to your family in Flintshire. I think that it is more likely that your ancestors are from the Holywell area as that is the info passed down by your family. All the names you give, both christian name & surname, are incredibly common in Wales. I had similar problems looking for a John Jones married to a Jane Williams in Wales. When we went to a likely churchyard we found that half the graves were for a Jones, half of those were for a John & half of those Johns were married to a Jane. And it turned out to be the wrong church after all!

Do you know what religion your g,grandfather was? There is a Roman Catholic community in that area of Wales & Holywell is named after St Winifride's Well which is still a place of pilgrimage. Although one of the websites talks about the non-conformist records being available, I do not know if that includes the catholic ones.

You could try contacting the County Records Office at Hawarden & asking for their advice. Their email should be on one of the websites.

[Donald]

Dear Wirral,
Thanks for your interest in my posting. I’m beginning to think that you are right the marriage for Edward J Ellis and Elizabeth Hughes that took place in Bangor in 1818 are the wrong couple. It seemed to me odd that on Edward Ellis (born c 1830), he gave his place of birth as Newmarket and on the birth certificate of one of his children he gave his birth place as Hollywell. I note from the map references Lynn gave me these two places are not too far apart.
No the families were Church in Wales of this I’m pretty confident. At least they followed Church of England traditions in Australia.
I also note that the original Welsh parish registers were not filmed by the LDS just the Bishops Transcripts. From your experience are the parish registers much more informative than the BTS records for baptisms and marriages?
Looks like I will have to look for a different marriage between an Edward Ellis and Elizabeth Hughes in the Newmarket - Hollywell districts and from that look for my G grandfathers baptism.
Thanks,
Donald.

[Wirral]

Hi Donald
The parish records usually have more info than the Bishop's transcripts. From about 1813 a standard form was used to record baptisms & burials. For a baptism this gave the date of baptism, the child's forename/s, parents' forenames, surname, place of birth (might be as detailed as house number & street or may just be area or town) & father's occupation. plus sometimes date of birth in the margin.
A burial would give the forename/s, surname, place of death, age at death, & date. Occasionally you get more info, such as "widow" or "son of .." or cause of death if unusual, or even if it was a particularly well-known member of the congregation.
Do you know any occupations for the family? You may have more luck with trade directories. They can help to sort out who is who, or at least narrow down the search.

[Wirral]

Have you tried the www.northwalesbmd.org.uk site? It is not complete yet, but may help.

[Kevin Williams]

Not sure if you have already be made aware of this, but Newmarket is now called Trelawnyd, it is in the Dyserth/Meliden area, not far from the seaside towns of Rhyl and Prestatyn, North Wales.

Good Luck

Kevin