Barnett Burns c1805

[popsit]

Hello,

This is definitely a brickwall. No one seems to be able to help hence me trying here.

I have a Bridget Cain marrying a Barnet Burns 1st of June 1835. Event place: Christ Church Greyfriars, Newgate London.
Barnet Burns always said he was "a british subject" which I have been told he wasn't born in England but if he was born elsewhere (Scotland maybe) and had both or one parent that was born in England then he was permitted to say he was a british subject.
I am looking for anything other than a marriage for Bridget. Did they have children? Barnet married four times his last wife was Rosina Crowther who we think was married before and had two children with her first husband. They are both (Rosina and Barnet) lodging with the Kay family in the 1841 census, she being a pedlar and he being a mariner. By 1851 census they are lodging with the Pluck family and she is now Mrs Burns. I have digressed a little so as to fill in a bit about Barnet. He also came to New Zealand and married a maori women and had three children with her but later returned to England on his own and she remarried.

So all boiled down anything anyone can find for me for Bridget Cain would definitely be really appreciated. Thank you.


Popsit

[Megan Roberts]

1851 census Piece 1761 Folio 241 Page 38
Linton Cambridgeshire
Rosina Burns lodger married aged 50 professor of music born London, Middlesex
Barnet Burns lodger married aged 44 lecturer British Subject
Charlotte Crowther lodger unmarried aged 22 no profession born Bristol – was she Rosina’s daughter?

There is no marriage in England and Wales for Barnet Burns and Rosina

Rosina Burns is in the 1861 census as a widow living on her own in Devon
Piece 1447 Folio 120 Page 29

Rosina Burns is in the 1871 census as a widow living with her daughter Charlotte A Watts (both widows) and two lodgers in near Chester in Cheshire
Piece 3727 Folio 68 Page 42

She seems to have had as much wanderlust as Barnet criss crossing the country! She died in Chester in 1879.


The marriage certificate for Barnet and Bridget is on Ancestry (London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754), but it is the pre-1837 form which is very unhelpful, in that the only useful information is that they were both from that parish, both single, both adults, and both unable to sign their names. The witnesses were probably friends rather than church wardens or family, (one of them also made his mark).


A Bridget Burns aged 34 died in 1839. The death was registered in St. Olaves Union, Southwark. This is a area south of the river Thames, and just east of Tower Bridge, which was part of the London docks area, and was popular with seamen.

As to whether Bridget and Barnet had any children, I can’t tell you about the period between 18375-1837, but it does not look like they did between 1837-1841. I searched to 1841 on the basis that you said that you had found Barnet and Rosina in the 1841 census, and I can’t be certain that the death record identified about is the Barnet’s wife.

It is not impossible that they simply split up and he moved on to Rosina. As I said above I haven’t found a marriage record for them.

British Subject – others may correct me, but:
England is not Britain it is simply one part of it. So if you are born in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland you are British. The term British Subject to me implies that he was born overseas to British parents, or perhaps just a British father/mother. I am not certain in those days if a mother would have passed on nationality to a child. So it could be that his father was in the army, or that his father was a sailor, or that perhaps he had gone to a colony such as New Zealand.

[Pam Downes]

If you put Barnet Burns into a search engine you should get four hits, one of which is Wikipedia which says that Barnet was likely the one baptised in Kirkby Ireleth in the county of Cumbria in 1805. (Though it would have been the county of Cumberland in 1805. :smile5:)

Pam

[Dundee10]

Just adding that prior to the Citizenship Acts of 1948 in Australia and New Zealand we did not have our own national identity and everyone was a British Subject.

Do you not believe that Barnet was born in Ireland?

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19270516.2.97

http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document?wid=327&page=0&action=null

Perhaps they thought he was Irish because that was where his booklet was first published.

[geneius]

George BURNS was baptised 25 Nov 1805 Kirby Ireleth Cumberland s/o George & Ann BURNS

[Pam Downes]

George BURNS was baptised 25 Nov 1805 Kirby Ireleth Cumberland s/o George & Ann BURNS
Well, there's a surprise. Wikipedia being wrong.
Though I suppose George could have changed his name to Barnet. Loads of other people changed their names, so why not George. :smile5: (Sorry, but I haven't time to look for him through the census and other records. Especially as Cumberland is like a foreign country to me. :smile5: Not familiar with it at all. )

Pam

[almach]

Is this a different Barnet??? Apologies if I'm muddying the waters or confusing things, but I did think it at least worth mentioning there were possibly?? two Barnet Burns with a history in New Zealand.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1b50/burns-barnet

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/artwork/26788/barnet-burns

[almach]

I am looking for anything other than a marriage for Bridget. Did they have children? Barnet married four times his last wife was Rosina Crowther who we think was married before and had two children with her first husband. They are both (Rosina and Barnet) lodging with the Kay family in the 1841 census, she being a pedlar and he being a mariner. By 1851 census they are lodging with the Pluck family and she is now Mrs Burns. I have digressed a little so as to fill in a bit about Barnet. He also came to New Zealand and married a maori women and had three children with her but later returned to England on his own and she remarried.

Hi Popsit, do you have a timeline for Barnet, did he marry the Maori lady before marrying his subsequent wives? You say 'he also came to New Zealand and married a Maori woman and had three children' was that before he married Bridget? Do you know if he remained in England after returning, or did he go back to New Zealand?

[christanel]

Do you not believe that Barnet was born in Ireland?

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19270516.2.97

http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document?wid=327&page=0&action=null

Perhaps they thought he was Irish because that was where his booklet was first published.

This one says claining to be born in Liverpool. http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1b50/burns-barnet

Christina

[christanel]

Born 1805? Cumberland? Ireland? Lancashire?
1819 to sea. Jamaica.
Returned to England and sent to the Lancastrian school.
1827 Sailed in Wilna to Rio de Janiero then the Nimrod to Sydney
Worked at Bank of Australia for 2 years
1830 to NZ trading flax. There 8 months then back to Sydney
1831 february returned to NZ. married chief's daughter.
1832 - 1834 traded flax to Sydney
1834 to Sydney. Son Hoti Waiti born after Barnett's departure.
1835 February to England.
1837 i July married Bridget Cain
May 1826 Lecture in Chichester. Derided.
1858 last lecture. Seriously ill for 3 months
1859 Las reference to Barnett Burns the tattoed showman.

There are numerous Barnett Burns to contend with.
1839 Death of Bridget Burns?
1841 have to account for Barnett Burns in the Manchester and Salford Directories. A fustian firer.
1841 Have to account for the Barnett Burns labourer, born c1801 in the 1841 Scotland census with Mrs. Burns and children Ann 15, Hugh, 13, Rose 8, Thomas 5.
1842 2 Dec. have to account for the Barnett Burns in the Freemason's Lodge records in Ireland.

Christina

[popsit]

1851 census Piece 1761 Folio 241 Page 38
Linton Cambridgeshire
Rosina Burns lodger married aged 50 professor of music born London, Middlesex
Barnet Burns lodger married aged 44 lecturer British Subject
Charlotte Crowther lodger unmarried aged 22 no profession born Bristol – was she Rosina’s daughter?

There is no marriage in England and Wales for Barnet Burns and Rosina

Rosina Burns is in the 1861 census as a widow living on her own in Devon
Piece 1447 Folio 120 Page 29

Rosina Burns is in the 1861 census as a widow living with her daughter Charlotte A Watts (both widows) and two lodgers in near Chester in Cheshire
Piece 3727 Folio 68 Page 42

She seems to have had as much wanderlust as Barnet criss crossing the country! She died in Chester in 1879.


The marriage certificate for Barnet and Bridget is on Ancestry (London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754), but it is the pre-1837 form which is very unhelpful, in that the only useful information is that they were both from that parish, both single, both adults, and both unable to sign their names. The witnesses were probably friends rather than church wardens or family, (one of them also made his mark).


A Bridget Burns aged 34 died in 1839. The death was registered in St. Olaves Union, Southwark. This is a area south of the river Thames, and just east of Tower Bridge, which was part of the London docks area, and was popular with seamen.

As to whether Bridget and Barnet had any children, I can’t tell you about the period between 18375-1837, but it does not look like they did between 1837-1841. I searched to 1841 on the basis that you said that you had found Barnet and Rosina in the 1841 census, and I can’t be certain that the death record identified about is the Barnet’s wife.

It is not impossible that they simply split up and he moved on to Rosina. As I said above I haven’t found a marriage record for them.

British Subject – others may correct me, but:
England is not Britain it is simply one part of it. So if you are born in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland you are British. The term British Subject to me implies that he was born overseas to British parents, or perhaps just a British father/mother. I am not certain in those days if a mother would have passed on nationality to a child. So it could be that his father was in the army, or that his father was a sailor, or that perhaps he had gone to a colony such as New Zealand.


First and foremost thank you lots for taking the time to look all this up for me, you have given me so much more info than I have already got. So, going through your answer. Rosina and Barnet in the 1851 census that I have does not state they were married (either to each other or to other people). Yes it looks like Charlotte was Rosina's daughter. The notes I have are: Barnet marries Bridget 1st June 1835 in London, however on the 23rd of July 1835 he is on his way to New Zealand. In Feb. of 1835 he had sailed back to England from Sydney Australia.
Putting all that to one side in 1830, 23rd July Barnet made his first trip to NZ, the one above was the second trip.Whilst in NZ he "marries" a maori woman by the name of Te Amatawa a daughter of a chief of a tribe that took him in (see Wikipedia). They have three children. I do not think they were married in the true sense but probably a tribal sort of marriage. In 1838 we see Barnet in France, 22nd Sept. supposedly married to a Ann Boval with whom he has two children who die young. I have emailed the maire of the 7th arrondisment asking to confirm if they were indeed actually married. By 1841 of course he is back in England and ends up with Rosina. He ends up in Plymouth as a showman doing maori dancing and has a full face tattoo which he got in NZ from the tribe he was living with. So you can see he lead a "varied" life lol. Apologies if this long story has left you with only one strand of hair, me, I have non left (hair that is) but I do love genealogy with a passion. The death you found for Bridget, I to had written this one down as I think this was my Bridget. In essence he has been with Amatawa 1, Bridget 2, Ann 3, and Rosina 4.
I was wondering if Bridget like Rosina might have been married before Barnet as she was 30 years old when she married Barnet, that's quite old for those days to not have been married or had no children. Perhaps she had been ill even before Barnet. I wonder what she died of. Am I correct in thinking I can get a copy of Bridgets death which might tell me how she died?
A bit about Barnets father, I think I have notes somewhere that he to is a mariner.I also have what I consider Barnets death reg. in last qrt 1860, hence Rosina being a widow in 1861. It might interest you to know his full name by the looks of it is George Barnet Burns, he has died in East Stonehouse Devon. Again apologies if this has left you needing a few days rest. Thank you. I'm off now to answer the other replies, hopefully I wont leave any of them messed up lol.

Popsit

[geneius]

A bit of nigt time reading....why struggle when it is on th'internet? Just google Barnet Burns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnet_Burns

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GM8NAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=barnet+burns&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi44Imors3TAhVrIMAKHYudBksQ6AEIJzAA#v=on epage&q=barnet%20burns&f=false

There are a lot of Irish in N Cumberland so I wonder if that's where his parents came from....

[popsit]

If you put Barnet Burns into a search engine you should get four hits, one of which is Wikipedia which says that Barnet was likely the one baptised in Kirkby Ireleth in the county of Cumbria in 1805. (Though it would have been the county of Cumberland in 1805. :smile5:)

Pam

Hi, Thank you for your reply.I had seen that one, however the words "british subject" baffled me a bit. In the first reply from Megan which I'm sure you have read suggests he may have been born overseas to a british parent or both. There is so much info given on these reg's that differ. In the 1841 census I have Barnet says he is born in Scotland, aged 40, born 1801and he is a mariner. I might add here he went to sea at the age of 13/14 which because his father was also a mariner could have taken him aboard with him to learn the ropes maybe.In the 1851 census he says he is aged 44 and a british subject. Thank you again.

Popsit

[popsit]

P.S. Thought I might add the following info. I am researching this for a cousin of my husbands whoes great grandfather X 4 was Hori Waiti one of awatare (the maori girl)youngest child.

[popsit]

Hi,
At this stage I don't know where he was born. It could have been anywhere but Wale. I think maybe I should concentrate on his parents, George Burns and Ann Burns nee Stewart and see what I can glean in records (hopefully) of them. Thank you for your reply

Popsit

[popsit]

WOW!! okay well that proves he was born in Cumberland because those are his parents. I know Cumberland was a seaport back then as I have researched my own family in Cumberland where I found a ancestor who had children in the workhouse and went on to be a "Ship Girl" if you know what I mean. Can I ask, if he was born in Cumberland why would he put "British Subject" on records instead of just Cumberland.Thank you

Popsit

[popsit]

There are two write-ups of him. The Wikipedia one is truer than the other that is completely wronge. As I said in an earlier reply he states in the 1841 census that he was born in Scotland aged 40 and born 1801. Can I ask if it is possible he was born in Scotland and because his father was a mariner and moved around the parents happened to be in Cumberland and baptized him there. I was looking for any other children these two may have had and I'm sure I found a girl born in 1805, must go back and have another look. Thank you for your reply

Popsit

[popsit]

Hello,
I have seen both of these and the Wikipedia one is the correct one the other is absolutely rubbish. There was only ever one Barnet Burns. I might add that Barnet's full name on his death cert is George Barnet Burns but never seem to use the George. I guess it was so as not to mistake him for his father. Thank you

Popsit

[popsit]

Hello,
He made two trips to NZ. The first was July 1830. This is where he "married" the maori lady. I think this was more a tribal marriage than a reg. one something I will have to try and find out. He went back to England sometime between 1830 and 1835 leaving behind a "wife" and three children, the maori lady remarried later. He married Bridget in 1835 1st June in London, no children. He was backwards and forwards between NZ, Australia and England. He did a stint in France where he met Ann Boval and had 2 children with her who supposedly died young. Have written to the maire of the 7th arroundisment in paris to check if it was a true marriage. This was supposed to have taken place on the 22nd Sept. 1838. Lastly he married Rosina Crowther although someone else has said they cant find a marriage for these two anywhere. Thank you


Popsit

[popsit]

Born 1805? Cumberland? Ireland? Lancashire?
1819 to sea. Jamaica.
Returned to England and sent to the Lancastrian school.
1827 Sailed in Wilna to Rio de Janiero then the Nimrod to Sydney
Worked at Bank of Australia for 2 years
1830 to NZ trading flax. There 8 months then back to Sydney
1831 february returned to NZ. married chief's daughter.
1832 - 1834 traded flax to Sydney
1834 to Sydney. Son Hoti Waiti born after Barnett's departure.
1835 February to England.
1837 i July married Bridget Cain
May 1826 Lecture in Chichester. Derided.
1858 last lecture. Seriously ill for 3 months
1859 Las reference to Barnett Burns the tattoed showman.

There are numerous Barnett Burns to contend with.
1839 Death of Bridget Burns?
1841 have to account for Barnett Burns in the Manchester and Salford Directories. A fustian firer.
1841 Have to account for the Barnett Burns labourer, born c1801 in the 1841 Scotland census with Mrs. Burns and children Ann 15, Hugh, 13, Rose 8, Thomas 5.
1842 2 Dec. have to account for the Barnett Burns in the Freemason's Lodge records in Ireland.

Christina

WOW!! okay seeing as your from NZ are you in any way related to this Barnet Burns.I am researching for a cousins wife of my husband who wants to know if there are any relatives still living of Barnet Burns coming down through the years in England as she wants to look them up. Hori (Jnr) Waiti is the great grand father X4 of the person I am doing the research for. Going through your Barnet Burns to contend with:

I am hoping and thinking that the death for Bridget is the right one
Barnet was always a Mariner and I have the 1841 census where he is lodging with the Kay family states he was born in Scotland aged 40 born 1801. Also there is Rosina Crowther, pedlar, born Scotland and by 1851 census she is Mrs Burns but no one can find a proper marriage between these two. In the 1851 census both Rosina and Barnet are lodging with the Pluck family and also Charlotte Crowther, daughter to Rosina from a prior marriage.
The Barnet Burns, labourer living with Mrs burns and children cant be him as he is in the 1841 census living in Yorkshire with the Kay family.
The last one wont be him as he would be still in England with Rosina.

A couple of other points are: He married Bridget 1st June 1835 not 1837 in London, I have the transcription.
Between 1835 and 1838 he is in France "married" to Ann Boval. I have written to the maire of the 7th arroundisment in Paris to look for a registered marriage. Because Bridget died in 1835 he was free to marry again. With Ann he had two children who died when young.
By 1841 he was back in England with Rosina. If he was truly married to Ann in France then that would be the reason he couldn't marry Rosina. He had no children with Rosina, she did have two in a previous marriage or partnership. By the by I don't suppose the marriage to Awatare was a registered one as back then a white man marrying a maori lady had to be registered, just wondering. I also have his death transcription where is full name was Georege Barnet Burns but he never used the name George except on his death details and I should think Rosina gave that info. He died in last qrt. 1860 in East Stonehouse Devon. In the 1861 census Rosina is a widow. I read somewhere that he died of Cirrosis of the liver, sorry spelt that wronge. Thank you for your info.

Popsit

[popsit]

A bit of nigt time reading....why struggle when it is on th'internet? Just google Barnet Burns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnet_Burns

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GM8NAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=barnet+burns&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi44Imors3TAhVrIMAKHYudBksQ6AEIJzAA#v=on epage&q=barnet%20burns&f=false

There are a lot of Irish in N Cumberland so I wonder if that's where his parents came from....

Been there done that (Wikipedia). It doesn't answer any questions I put to the forum. Thank you. I actually like a bit of a struggle as one learns new things. Theres nothing as good as genealogy....love it.

Popsit

[Megan Roberts]

You can apply for death certificates here:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Each one costs £9.25

You will need the year, the quarter, the volume and the page number.

You can also search the death index on the same site as well (free!).

The death you have found for Barnet in Devon sounds right, and would explain why Rosina was in Devon in the 1861 census on her own as a widow.

He may got into the habit of describing himself as a British Subject through his long years as a sailor / mariner going round the world and having to say where he was from in different ports, and given that he was quite a character, it would added to his air of mystery, particularly as you say he had a full face tattoo.

I presume that you have collect lots of newspaper cuttings, but in case you haven’t I did a very quick search at FMP and there are a number of articles there:
Hampshire Advertiser 27 Feb 1836 – he was giving an account of his eight years in NZ
Hampshire Advertiser 12 Mar 1836 – described as the NZ chieftain
Hampshire Advertiser 26 Mar 1836 – described as the NZ chief
Hampshire Advertiser 16 Apr 1836 – described as the NZ chief
The Morning Post, London 18 Apr 1836 Barnet Burns, sailor
Hampshire Advertiser 30 Apr 1836 – Barnet Burns the Englishman
Hampshire Advertiser 7 May 1836 – lectured on NZ
Hampshire Chronicle 9 May 1836 – lectured on NZ – an audience of 400 people
Brighton Gazette 12 May 1836
Brighton Patriot 5 July 1836
Sussex Advertiser 14 November 1836 – account of a problem he had in France when he played a trick on the learned scientific body the Paris Academy
Morning Advertiser 26 October 1837
London Evening Standard 12 Feb 1839 – in trouble with the police but contains his account of how came to be living with the Maoris, and talks about cannibalism. He also says he took a “squaw” in France.
Manchester Time 29 April 1848

[popsit]

To all members who answered my call re Barnet Burns, especially to Megan. Through you I have enough now to carry on.After yesterday with all the info and remarks I set off to look for any siblings Barnet may have had. I found marriage details for George and Anne Burns, parents to Barnet and found the following:


Robert b. 1802, Dec.
Thomas b. 1803, Dec.
George b. 1805, Nov.

All born in Kirkby Ireleth, Lancs. I was beginning to think maybe there were two George's as 1801 kept turning up as well as 1805. Sometimes in families back then the first George may have died between 1801 and 1805 so as the next one was a boy they recalled him George. I think I am safe in thinking there was only one George and he was born in 1805. I also think that the two before him, Thomas and Robert were named after fathers of the parents......correct me if I am wronge lol, wasn't that how it went back then.

George's middle name was Barnet (but not on his birth details) hence the reason he never used his first name of George except on his death details which Rosina must have known about so registered him with all his names. Maybe because he didn't want people to mix things with a father of the same name.

So, me thinking that Barnet was the first born goes out the window. I'm not sure if there were other children as yet later on, will take a look later. He sure was a colourful man wasn't he. I am going to try to go as far back as possible with this family.

I would like to thank you all very much for your time taken to help me, it is very much appreciated. I may be back sometime in the future if I get stuck again. Great web site.


Popsit/NZ

[christanel]

Hi Popsit
I have merged your post (#23 which you had started as a new thread) with the original thread so all the information is kept together and also because you gave them both the same title which could have been confusing in the future.
I have now changed the title of the original thread to 'Barnett Burns c1805' which represents more clearly just what and who the query was about. That will make it easier for others who may be researching Barnet Burns in the future. :smile5:
Christina

[geneius]

Popsit
You need to order the parish registers baptism and death fior Kirkby ireleth thru' family search to see what other info is shown.check out lancs-opc.org.UK The marriage of George & annn steward + some children are listed

[popsit]

Popsit
You need to order the parish registers baptism and death fior Kirkby ireleth thru' family search to see what other info is shown.check out lancs-opc.org.UK The marriage of George & annn steward + some children are listed

Thank you for your post. Whilst I am here I would like to add a bit more that I have found for George and Anne Burns.I myself have been on the family search and found the following:

George and Anne were married 1801 Kirkby, Ireleth, Lancs. They had the following children (I may have a question to ask re these children).

Robert Burns b. 1st Dec. 1802 These two were twins yes?
George Burns b. 1st Dec. 1802

Thomas Burns b. 17th Dec 1803
George Burns b. 25th Nov. 1805 This is my Barnet Burns, Barnet being his middle name.
Edward Burns b. 13th Oct. 1807
John Burns b. 10th May 1811
All born in Kirkby, Ireleth, Lancs. I think the George that I think was a twin must have died (will look for a death) hence another baby got called George. Anne's name was always spelt with an E on the end.
I also think and also have to look it up that the John born 10th May 1811 may have died in on 25th aug. 1811.

If I have any mis information please let me know. Thanks.


Popsit

[Megan Roberts]

I think that it is reasonable to assume that the two baptised on 1 Dec 1802 were twins, as they seem to be baptising children fairly regularly.

It is sometimes difficult to know where twins occur, because not all babies were baptised at birth.

The first baby George must have died and probably helps to explain why the second George was known Barnet rather than George.

[geneius]

If you order the film with the parish register on, you may find local notes made by the officiating minister. You may pick up other family members!
I research in Cumberland/Cumbria and actually found details of a couple's ancestry written in this margin. None of this
Is contained on the on !line transcriptions!

[popsit]

Hi,
I am looking for info on whereabouts I should look for a burial (which cemetery) or a lookup for the following person:

Barnet Burns, may have a middle name of George. He died in 1860, East stonehouse Devon. I have looked in the "billion graves" but wasn't there. Any help appreciated.

Popsit

[Pam Downes]

Popsit - to avoid confusion and duplicated research we only allow one thread for a person, so I have added your new request re Barnett to his original thread.

Though I've just realised that it would have made more sense if I'd put your post after mine :smile5:, so everyone please read the post before this one (i.e. number 29) in case you can help popsit.

Pam

[geneius]

from wiki

Barnet Burns was buried in a common grave on 30 December 1860 at what is now the Ford Park Cemetery,Plymouth. The cemetery records may show where the common grave was!

[popsit]

Thank you, realized this after I had sent it. It may sound like I want a repeat lookup but not this time. All I am looking for is what cemetery he is likely to have been buried in.

[geneius]

You have the info now.

Sometimes when a post is picked up you can get a repeat of what has already been given so it is a bit of a waste of time and can be frustrating when we realise that the info is on another thread.

Keeping the info together makes for the info all in one place and continuity

[popsit]

the info I was given above re cemetery is the first time I have received it. The mistake I made is not putting my request in with the previous posts and I have apologised for that, so I cant see where the frustration and waste of time comes in as it wasn't a repeat query about the cemetery.