Query - 1939 Register

[David Tuson]

I have the 1939 Register image for a Harold EVANS (born in 1925) from Haverstock West R D, Pembrokeshire.


His date of birth was initially recorded as 2 Sep 25. Above is an entry "26 9 25 WRJ" which is his correct date of birth. Any suggestions on the meaning of "WRJ".


Also on his father's entry, the number '30' has been entered in the ROLE Column - would that be the number of years in a role, such as "Officer". He was born in 1893.His occupation was recorded as Ship's Rigger.


As a bonus further down the image I found Harold's grandmother, two uncles and an aunt. They were living at the same house in the 1911 census!!


David

[macwil]

His date of birth was initially recorded as 2 Sep 25. Above is an entry "26 9 25 WRJ" which is his correct date of birth. Any suggestions on the meaning of "WRJ".

If it is handwritten I would suggest they are probably the initials of the person who entered the correction.

[David Tuson]

I did wonder about that, thanks

[Pam Downes]

Can only agree with macwil re the WRJ, but I've never (that I can recall) seen any other amendments initialled.

Hadn't a clue what you meant by 'Role' column so went googling and found that it's column 5, headed O V S P or I. It refers only to institutions and means Officer, Visitor, Servant, Patient, or Inmate.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/

Have to say that I don't think it's 30 though - I think the last character is a D. Unless it's '310',
If you have a sub to FMP, go forward to image 24 and there's entry with an amendment in green ink with 310 written beside it and Harold's father's entry has been amended. Presumably 310 is a code.

Pam

[David Tuson]

Can only agree with macwil re the WRJ, but I've never (that I can recall) seen any other amendments initialled.

Hadn't a clue what you meant by 'Role' column so went googling and found that it's column 5, headed O V S P or I. It refers only to institutions and means Officer, Visitor, Servant, Patient, or Inmate.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/

Have to say that I don't think it's 30 though - I think the last character is a D. Unless it's '310',
If you have a sub to FMP, go forward to image 24 and there's entry with an amendment in green ink with 310 written beside it and Harold's father's entry has been amended. Presumably 310 is a code.

Pam

Hi Pam
I had been to the National Archives site to find out what that column meant before posting as I'd never bothered looking at it previously.. I'll go back and see if 310 is a code and hopefully it's meaning.
Thanks David

[Pam Downes]

David,

Believe it or not, I think I've cracked the 310 code. |woohoo|
Though it perhaps only applies when it's written in green.

First of all, don't ask my why I started to check out some of hubby's family tonight, but I was looking at one of them on the 1939 Register and noticed that he had had his entry amended in green and 310 was written by the side of the entry.
(All names and dates have been altered) :smile5:
Original entry - Frederick Browne.
Amended entry - Frederick Joseph Brown.
Note that when Frederick died in 1978, his death was registered as Frederick Joseph Brown.

On another family page I noticed another entry (no relation) with an amendment and 310, both in green.
Checked that one out.
Original entry Mary Emma Clark.
Amended to Mary Harriet Emma Clark.
Death registration for Mary Harriet E Clark in 1978. Date of birth on death registration is the same as in the 1939 Register.

I've also checked it out with a third person, same thing applies.
What these people also have in common is that they died between 1976 and 1979, so the 310 in green code may have only applied in certain years.
Be interesting if anyone else can report 310 in green codes for years outside of the 1970s.

ADDED:
Found two or three more entries, all of whom died in the 1970s. Earliest in 1972.
But then found one which doesn't 'work'. Can't find a 'suitable' death for her under either surname. So now I'm :confused5: but still think my original theory correct. :smile5:

Pam

[almach]

Believe it or not, I think I've cracked the 310 code

Yay! Well done, Pam.

David, do you know if Harold Evans moved from Pembrokeshire to Swindon, Wiltshire? I ask, as the only information I can find for an abbreviation of three letters applies to area codes, and WRJ is for Swindon. Otherwise the letters probably are a person's initials.

[almach]

I ask, as the only information I can find for an abbreviation of three letters applies to area codes, and WRJ is for Swindon.

May be scrap that idea, as I cannot find a death in Wiltshire. I'm stumped unless the letters are someone's initials.

[Megan Roberts]

I have the 1939 Register image for a Harold EVANS (born in 1925) from Haverstock West R D, Pembrokeshire.




The place is actually HAVERFORDWEST

[David Tuson]

The place is actually HAVERFORDWEST

Oops, silly me, sorry for typing the wrong place name - put it down to old age.

[David Tuson]

Yay! Well done, Pam.

David, do you know if Harold Evans moved from Pembrokeshire to Swindon, Wiltshire? I ask, as the only information I can find for an abbreviation of three letters applies to area codes, and WRJ is for Swindon. Otherwise the letters probably are a person's initials.

Hi
No he didn't move to Swindon. Sorry for the delay in replying I was out house hunting for a friend and we travelled many hundreds of kilometres. When we got home I was too tired to rurn on the computer until today.

[David Tuson]

I sent an email to National Archives regarding the entry in Column 5, here is their reply received today...................

"Thank you for contacting The National Archives of the United Kingdom.

Column 5 in the 1939 Register was used only in the case of institutions, where the abbreviations O,V,S,P,I were used to indicate whether the person was an Officer, Visitor, Servant, Patient or Inmate in the institution. The entry to which you refer is part of the ordinary household returns, and the annotation concerned appears to have added at a later date, possibly in connection with the amendment of the forenames from Thomas G to Gordon Thomas.

Annotations and updates were made for a wide variety of different reasons during the time when the 1939 Register was a working document. It was originally used for National Registration purposes, and in 1948 it became the National Health Service Register. It remained in use until 1991, when the paper-based system was discontinued. These updates are often accompanied by alphabetical or numeric codes, but neither The National Archives nor Findmypast has access to information on what the codes may have meant".



David

[Pam Downes]

Thanks for the reply from TNA, David.

Do you think we ought to tell them that we've possibly cracked the meaning of 310? :smile5:

Pam

[Ladkyis]

typical government, let you see part of a thing but regard most of it as a threat to national security. Now we have to wonder just what else those codes can possibly hide...................... the mind boggles

[Guy Etchells]

From what I have seen 310 is the code for an addition rather than a change.

Additions such as an initial or a middle name added but not a change of surname such as a change after marriage.

Some pages that have 310 codes are
TNA_R39_1122_1122I_012.jpg Forename added

TNA_R39_1131_1131H_009.jpg two added initials on this page, one with 310 code one without

TNA_R39_0906_0906B_008.jpg one entry with 310 and a additional initial and two with code CR 285 date MX with additional surname plus additional initial

TNA_R39_0205_0205G_009.jpg additional forename plus addition initial

TNA_R39_5735_5735H_011.jpg written in black (grey) ½ MC 310 this entry is Fannie D changed to Fanny Doris

There is also a dated H/M OX entry in grey which contains a change from Francis to Frances or perhaps a repeat of Francis

TNA_R39_5802_5802F_017.jpg contains 310 for what seems to be a completely new name and surname placed between two lines of entries.

There is also another entry dated 310 + NR 29 which is simply an additional surname in green

TNA_R39_5690_5690H_010.jpg 310 change of spelling of surname
310 additional forename


Cheers
Guy

[Pam Downes]

I've only checked three or four of Guy's examples but all except one bear out my original theory that 310, usually written in green, is the name/spelling that someone's death was registered under. Guy's examples have allowed me to extend the theory from the 1970s to 1966 and 1987.


TNA_R39_5735_5735H_011.jpg written in black (grey) ½ MC 310 this entry is Fannie D changed to Fanny Doris
Don't understand the "black (grey) ½ MC" bit, but this lady's death was registered as Fanny Doris, so 310 theory would apply.


TNA_R39_5802_5802F_017.jpg contains 310 for what seems to be a completely new name and surname placed between two lines of entries.

There is also another entry dated 310 + NR 29 which is simply an additional surname in green.
First one isn't a completely new name, just her full married name, and the name her death was registered under. She was married as Margaret Louise S.

The second one with the NR29 is the one which doesn't follow the theory. Unless the NR29 means that she died outside England and Wales.

I know of one instance where a first name in the 1939 Register differs from the name on the death registration and there's no green 310, but that death occurred at sea in 1962, so I don't know whether it's the year or the place of death which has made that entry 'break the rule'.

Pam

[skrivener]

Hi, There's a copy of the UK Death Registering Form 310 here (page 154)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/.../marriage--divorce-and-adoption-statistics-series-fm2.pdf

It shows how long this 1939 census was used as a primary source of record keeping and that there was an armys of clerks scurrying around dusty record rooms, to cross-reference reported deaths well into the 1970s. Perhaps they were trying to stop pension fraud using identities of those who'd died?

Now to attempt to find what a red C in a circle means in the registry. Think he may have been considered left wing or 'c'ommunist, and perhaps had 'c'onscientious objector opinions, though joined army. Hopefully it means neither, as that smacks of red-ink, stazi-style, record keeping.

[valg]

I have a green code on one of mine it is in 1962 and it appears to be CR 283..its surname change from Johnson to Jones. There is also a further edit in red pen where her birth year was changed from 1902 to 1900

Down the page there is a correction in 1961 which is CR 282 changing a christian name from Maggie to Margaret.
There are also a couple with a new surname and a M noted..assume married name.