Bulawayo births and marriages

[Sue1957]

Hi all
Hope I'm doing this correctly. I would like to find a birth certificate for my dad who was born in Bulawayo in 1930. His parents were married in 1929 also in Bulawayo, but I can't find anything on line on the numerous sites I've been on.
His parents are Josephine Scholefield born 1908 and Patrick D'Arcy Forde born either 1909 or 1903 depending on bits of paperwork i have. Their marriage was "shotgun"I think!
My father was Michael Anthony Forde born 19.08.1930.
Many thanks in advance.
Sue

[christanel]

Hi
Have you looked at the 1939 register on FMP? Because of their T and C's I can only tell you the info gained from a free search which is that there is an alternative surname of Berry for him and searching for other Fordes in the same area doesn't turn up any.

Christina

[Sue1957]

Thank you Christina
I think you've probably found my tree and postings. He changed his name to his adoptive fathers just before he married my mum.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Sue,

I've done a bit of searching without coming up without anything positive apart from the fact that it would seem all civil registration stuff is held by the Archives in Harare,
https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Zimbabwe,_Death_Records_(FamilySearch_Historical_R ecords)
('What is in this collection')

although FamilySearch seems to have changed the records holder in this statement (In fairness, it is qualified by the author saying that they don't know how up to date the information is.)

"and that birth and death certificates are held by the Home Affairs main office in Harare"
(scroll down to Southern Rhodesia/Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, and then to 'Family Search')
https://www.
geni.com/projects/Rhodesia-and-Nyasaland-Zambia-Zimbabwe-Malawi-%25E2%2580%2593-Genealogical-Reference-Centre/9080

Googling for 'Home Affairs Office Harare' and then searching the departments dropdown menu found me this
http://www.rg.gov.zw/
However there's some very dodgy clickable links (found by hovering my cursor over them, and caused, according to my computer, by me using a BT internet link) so take care what you click on when reading the 'birth and death certificates' page.
There is a 'contact us' link which might be a better place to start. :smile5:

Pam

[wimsey]

pardon me asking - is Patrick D'Arcy Forde a different person to Hilary John Patrick D'Arcy Forde ? not that this helps with your quest, I was just curious.

[Sue1957]

Thank you for all your help. Hilary is the same person. But I can't find anything with his full name. He was known by Patrick D'Arcy. Apparently sometimes just D'Arcy or Paddy. I suppose it depends who he was trying to impress.

[wimsey]

Hilary John Patrick D'Arcy Forde is the name on his christening record on Family Search (transcription only, no image)

[elsinore]

Hilary John Patrick D'Arcy Forde is the name on his christening record on Family Search (transcription only, no image)

FMP has the image. Search British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns -Births and Baptisms.

Peter

[Sue1957]

I have all his birth details and his parents marriage details. It his marriage and his sons birth I'm looking for. Paddy was born in India and his parents were married there. I don't know why they were there though.
I'm beginning to wonder if he did actually marry!

[wimsey]

I have all his birth details

apologies - when you said in message #6 : "I can't find anything with his full name" i.e. Patrick's full name, I assumed you hadn't seen his India baptism record which presumably does have his full name on it (otherwise Ancestry, Find My Past and Family Search wouldn't know that that was his full name).

As to why Hilary/Patrick's parents were in India, doesn't their marriage record indicate an occupation for the bridegroom ?

I appreciate none of this is helping with your Bulawayo enquiries. I should imagine that Zimbabwe is a particularly difficult country to extract information from.

[wimsey]

don't know if this is any use

http://www.rg.gov.zw/contactus

[Sue1957]

Thank you for that. I'll definitely give it a try.

[geneius]

I have all his birth details and his parents marriage details. It his marriage and his sons birth I'm looking for. Paddy was born in India and his parents were married there. I don't know why they were there though.
I'm beginning to wonder if he did actually marry!

Maybe you have some of this info!
Info FMP as per #6

FIBIS has the death of Cyril Andrew 1910

According to 2 of the 3 Catholic baptism entry 1907/ 1909 & 1910 HJPD'a Forde's father was
a) Clerk to Adjuant General's Office
b) Ordinance Clerk

Andrew Jos FORDE b circa 1881s/o John FORDE
Mona Jane ( Jean ) Brien Russell b 1891 circa
Did you note there were 2 marriage entry 1906 by licence ( you need to source this as there may be addi'l info), Mona was 15y 4 m & by Banns 1908 this is on ancestry

1901
RG13; Piece: 1045; Folio: 140
Mona J Ritchie Russell
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: School Child
Birth Place: India
Civil Parish: Bournemouth

She can be found:
Name: Mona Jers Forde
Birth: abt 1892
Departure: Sydney, Australia
Arrival: 4 May 1916 - London, England

Name: M J H Forde
Birth Date: abt 1891
Age: 34
Port of Departure: River Plate, South America
Arrival Date: 30 Jul 1925
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Holbein

Name: Mrs Jean Forde
Age: 34
Birth Date: abt 1891
Departure Date: 14 Oct 1925
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Bombay, India
Ship Name: California

Interesting that she travelled without husband or child! She gave a UK address in Barnes and desc herself as a Nursing Sister!

[Sue1957]

Thank you. Yes I have all this. Mona was put into an orphanage for 2 years. You can see why it's so interesting though.
Her mother married 3 times before dying not Kenya.
I have tried for so many years to get to the bottom of this. On the plus side everyone has confirmed all my findings which is reassuring as I was beginning to wonder if I had gone wrong!,

[geneius]

Marion Josephine SCHOLFIELD b 1908 Huddersfield

1911 Census
RG14; Piece: 26328
with family
70 May St Crosland Moor Huddersfield

Arriving in the UK with Michael aged 1
Margy J Aarcy Forde
[Marion J D'Arcy Forde]*
Birth Date: abt 1908
Age: 23
Port of Departure: Beira, Mozambique
Arrival Date: 13 Apr 1931
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage Cape Town
Ship Name: Durham Castle

Marriage to Mr Berry

Name: Marion J Forde
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1934
Registration district: Barnsley
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Spouse: Sidney Berry
Volume Number: 9c Page Number: 716

Death

Name: Marion Josephine Berry
Birth Date: 15 Mar 1908
Date of Registration: Jun 1976
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Sheffield
Inferred County: South Yorkshire
Volume: 3 Page: 1241

Name:
Marion Josephine Berry
Death Date: 30 Apr 1976
Death Place: Ashford nr Bakewell Derbyshire
Probate Date: 15 Oct 1976
Registry: Sheffield

[Sue1957]

Yes. Thank you I have all that. It is my gran. It's just her first marriage I can't find but thank you for looking.

[geneius]

Looking at your Gran,

B 15 March 908
aged 22+4 months when she has her son in August 1930

Her father was the local draper

When & why did she go to Bulaweyo? Getting her 1934 marriage would indicate her status. widow etc...

Further rummaging has found this comment attached to a tree on ancestry

Marriage Register
Notarised copy of the original entry in the Register of the Church of the Immaculate Conception, Bulawayo, Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe)

Birth
19 Aug 1930 • Bulawayo, Southern Rhodesia
Notarized copy of True Extract of Birth Register kept at Bulawayo, South Rhodesia, entry no. 327/1956 dated 8 Nov 1956
1*Source

Looking at the 'tree', you appear to be in contact with the owner wooldridge_46

[Sue1957]

I have the copies of birth certificate of my father and his parents wedding. However, the d grooms birth date is wrong by six years according the wedding certificate. There is also very little information on them. I was told it was possible to "buy" certificates for weddings that may not have been legal? Don't know if there is any truth in that. Josephine was divorced according her marriage certificate when she married again in 1934.
I have done ok with Josephine's (my gran) family, but it was Paddy's that I would have liked to research. I wondered why there wasn't an official record of his birth or marriage on the internet?

[geneius]

I wondered why there wasn't an official record of his birth or marriage on the internet?

I seem to recall that Hilary....was baptised in St Joseph's ( Catholic) Church India. Non conformist records are only just starting to appear on line!

You have the date of baptism his date of birth is said to be 15 January 1909 the Priest would recognise whether he was baptising a baby or toddler!, therefore he would appear to be slightly younger than Josephine. He may have made up the 1903.... not unusual....

His father was Andrew Joseph who in turn was the son of John FORDE

In 1906 Andrew was living in Simla in 1908 he stated he was 27 giving a birth year of 1881

Look at the 1939 register for Andrew J FORDE 1881 Calne and Chippenham R.D., Wiltshire

Potential
Forde A J 1880 — 1949 Passenger Lists Leaving Uk 1890-1960
Durban (Port Natal), South Africa

Name: Andrew Forde
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 13 Nov 1880 agrees with other info
Birth Place: Ireland
Father: John Forde
Mother: Mary Byrne Forde

[Sue Mackay]

. I wondered why there wasn't an official record of his birth or marriage on the internet?

Being able to find original BMD records on the internet either requires a country to have a user-friendly National Archives site with a willingness to publish historical records, even if for a fee, as with Scotland, or for the archive to have come to an arrangement with a larger organisation such as Ancestry, FMP or Family Search to publish the records, and it takes a great deal of time, money and resources to produce indexes, transcripts etc.

So far as I can see only death records are at present available for Zimbabwe via Family Search

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1927049?region=Zimbabwe


The Zimbabwe National Archives site is at http://www.archives.gov.zw/

[Sue1957]

Hilary father in law Jimmy scholefield died in Durban. His wife Ethel and my gran Marion returned to England with my father in 1931. My tree is Forde on ancestry. I think I might have gone awry around the John, Mary entries!

[Pam Downes]

I have the copies of birth certificate of my father and his parents wedding.
Am I missing something? :confused5:

That sentence completely contradicts both the second sentence in your first post which said

I would like to find a birth certificate for my dad who was born in Bulawayo in 1930
and also your next sentence which implies that you're also looking for a copy of the marriage certificate

His parents were married in 1929 also in Bulawayo, but I can't find anything on line on the numerous sites I've been on.


However, the d grooms birth date is wrong by six years according the wedding certificate.
People lied. Or at least told great big fibs. For reasons known possibly only to themselves.


There is also very little information on them.
Certificates vary a lot from from country to country. There's many a moan from people with English ancestors of 'why can't our certificates be as informative as Scottish ones'.


I was told it was possible to "buy" certificates for weddings that may not have been legal? Don't know if there is any truth in that.
I don't know if the Home Affairs office or Archives in Zimbabwe (contact details in various posts in this thread) would be willing to give any details regarding that.


Josephine was divorced according her marriage certificate when she married again in 1934.
I have done ok with Josephine's (my gran) family, but it was Paddy's that I would have liked to research. I wondered why there wasn't an official record of his birth or marriage on the internet?

Only a very small percentage of the trillions of records that exist throughout the world are on the internet.
And in spite of the large number of people researching their family history, of the billions of records which are online, only a very small percentage of those will ever be accessed.

Some countries have more available online than others, who may have very few or even none.
Many poorer countries still have very limited funds available for resources such as archives, and making those archives available to the public at large. Even by snail mail.

What is worse is knowing that records existed but have been destroyed by fire, water or bombing, lost by theft, etc.

Pam