George Butcher Twynam 1867-1947

[wimsey]

Hello

I am just trying to confirm whether I have the right facts for my great-grandfather George Butcher Twynam.

Birth certificate - born 7 December 1867, Downend, Arreton, Isle of Wight. Mother's name Eleanor Twynam. No father's name so I assume illegitimate. Informant of birth J Butcher. Birth registered 18 January 1868.

I have been told by a researcher that Eleanor's maiden name was Snelgrove (or Snellgrove) and that she was the widow of Walter Twynam (1811-61) of Bishopstoke, Hampshire (they married 1847). And that Eleanor's sister was Jane, who married Joseph Butcher. I can't find a census with Eleanor and Jane together to prove this.

There is an 1871 census with George Butcher, "son", aged 3, with Joseph & Jane Butcher at Arreton.
Then an 1881 census with George Butcher, "nephew", aged 13, with Joseph & Susannah (I think Jane had died in 1875).

18 March 1890, Islington Registry Office, George Butcher Twynam (mis-spelt Twyman) married Mary Ann Burt. George giving false father's name as also George Butcher Twynam, though certificate amended on 5 June 1905 (why then ??) to remove father's name. George & Mary's first child, Pearce, born December 1890.

I think one question is, can I be sure that Eleanor (or Ellenor) was Jane's sister? And would a bastardy bond exist saying who George Butcher Twynam's father was ?

[almach]

I think one question is, can I be sure that Eleanor (or Ellenor) was Jane's sister?

There are records suggesting they are probably sisters.

Name: Walter Twynam
Spouse: Ellenor Snellgrove
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 27 Apr 1847
Parish: Christ Church, St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Henry Twynam
Spouse Father: Thomas Snellgrove
Register Type: Parish Register

Both Elenor and Jane Snellgrove/Snelgrove baptisms name parents Thomas and Elenor. The baptisms were in Hampshire. Elenor 1830 Bishop's Waltham; Jane 1828 Bishopstoke

[Sandyhall]

Alma you beat me to it yes I found marriage as well


Hello
I have been told by a researcher that Eleanor's maiden name was Snelgrove (or Snellgrove) and that she was the widow of Walter Twynam (1811-61) of Bishopstoke, Hampshire (they married 1847). And that Eleanor's sister was Jane, who married Joseph Butcher. I can't find a census with Eleanor and Jane together to prove this.

Where did this researcher find this information and have you checked it out to verify that it is correct.
Have you found the marriage.

[Sandyhall]

Marriages Jun 1848
JOSEPH BUTCHER I of Wight. Vol no 8, Page no 376

on the same page is JANE SNELGROVE

[Sandyhall]

Possible half sisters of George Butcher Twynam
Ellen Susanna and Ann

[almach]

Walter Twynam, seems to have been a property owner - so quite wealthy. Certainly Elinor lived a comfortable life after his death.

[wimsey]

many many thanks for your very fast responses. Yes I'm aware of Ann Twynam as a half-sister. The problem with her is she was born 1846, a year before Ellenor & Walter married and if Ellenor was Ann's mother she might only have been 15 when she conceived (with Walter nearly 20 years older than Ellenor) - but I guess that's not impossible.

On the 1911 census Ellenor, living in Herne Bay, Kent says she had had 8 children with 4 already dead. She died 1912.

[almach]

Marriage
Name Thomas Snelgrove
Spouse's Name Eleanor Goater
Event Date 25 Jul 1825
Event Place Alverstoke,Hampshire,England

1841 census: HO107, Piece 404, Book 18, Folio 32, Page 22
Bishops Stoke
Mary Snelgrove, 66, John Snelgrove 14, Eleanor 11. Also George Gover 18

Mary possibly Thomas' mother?

[almach]

Yes I'm aware of Ann Twynam as a half-sister.

I've taken another look at the marriage between Walter and Elinor and Walter is entered as a WIDOW, therefore Ann Twynam could be his dau to a first wife.

[almach]

1841 HO107; Piece: 404; Book: 18; Folio: 26; Page: 9
Bishops Stoke
Walter Twyman 30
Helen Twyman 20
Anna Fulchen 45

Name: Walter Twynam
Spouse: Helen Evans Atwood
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Jun 1840
Parish: Parish Chapel, St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Henry Twynam
Spouse Father: Harry Atwood

[wimsey]

apologies, yes I have already looked into this - I think Helen died in 1843.

[almach]

Thomas Snelgrove son of William and Mary, baptised 4th Feb 1798 at Bishopstoke. There is a note on the record: "1 wk nee Snellgrove" I've no idea what it means.

[wimsey]

thanks for that - no, I've no idea what that means either

[almach]

On the 1911 census Ellenor, living in Herne Bay, Kent says she had had 8 children with 4 already dead. She died 1912.

Have you tried working through the known living children born and included on earlier census, and looking for some evidence of either still alive in 1911, died pre 1911, possibly died pre 1911? Do you know what happened to Walter age 9yrs in 1861?

[almach]

George Butcher Twynam 1867-1947

I wonder why he was given the middle name Butcher? It seems odd that Elinor gave him to her sister, after all her husband had died a few years before George's birth, and Elinor was certainly in a financial position to look after him. Perhaps it was to save face! Doesn't explain the middle name Butcher though!

[wimsey]

yes, I think I've asked myself the same question. When I first received the birth certificate I assumed his mother's maiden name would be Butcher - but then I couldn't find a Butcher/Twynam marriage.

Do you agree that the George Butcher on the 1871 and 1881 censuses is George Butcher Twynam ? If he went to school at Arreton I suppose he would go into the register as George Butcher. Then I guess at some point someone told him what his real surname was - otherwise he could easily have gone through life as George Butcher. Except perhaps he would have to produce a birth certificate at some point ? I wonder if he ever had contact with his mother. On the 1939 register he is actually living in Herne Bay with his spinster stepsister Mary Evans Twynam (he was widowed in 1936).

Thanks for your interest.

[wimsey]

Have you tried working through the known living children born and included on earlier census, and looking for some evidence of either still alive in 1911, died pre 1911, possibly died pre 1911? Do you know what happened to Walter age 9yrs in 1861?

the legitimate children I know about are

Ann Twynam 1846-1903 unmarried (edit - perhaps not legitimate !)
Elizabeth Twynam 1847-1898 unmarried
Walter Twynam 1851-1917 - disappears off censuses but died in Nassau, Bahamas. I found a Bahamas newspaper article implying that his father had at some point bought land on the Bahamas which Walter junior went out to farm (he was a dairyman) - married, 6/7 children
Mary Evans Twynam 1855-1942 unmarried
Henry Wyatt Twynam 1858-1928 married, no children
Thomas Twynam 1859-1931 married, 3 children
Ellen Susanna Twynam 1862-1898 unmarried, born after her father's death

so that's seven children, 3 dead before 1911

edit - Mary Evans Twynam seems to have been executor for her brother Walter's will in 1917. In the 1920's two of his children visited their uncle Henry Wyatt Twynam in Norwich, from their home in the Bahamas.

[almach]

yes, I think I've asked myself the same question. When I first received the birth certificate I assumed his mother's maiden name would be Butcher - but then I couldn't find a Butcher/Twynam marriage.

Do you agree that the George Butcher on the 1871 and 1881 censuses is George Butcher Twynam ? If he went to school at Arreton I suppose he would go into the register as George Butcher. Then I guess at some point someone told him what his real surname was - otherwise he could easily have gone through life as George Butcher. Except perhaps he would have to produce a birth certificate at some point ? I wonder if he ever had contact with his mother. On the 1939 register he is actually living in Herne Bay with his spinster stepsister Mary Evans Twynam (he was widowed in 1936).

Thanks for your interest.

Yes, I certainly agree he is plain George Butcher in 1871 and 1881. He would have needed a birth certificate to claim his OAP and possibly before then. I think the fact he was living with his half sister in 1939 does suggests he knew who his natural mother was, otherwise how could he explain his surname being Twynam, same as Mary Evans Twynam.

[almach]

Walter Twynam 1851-1917 - disappears off censuses but died in Nassau, Bahamas. I found a Bahamas newspaper article implying that his father had at some point bought land on the Bahamas which Walter junior went out to farm (he was a dairyman) - married, 6/7 children

I'm pleased you've cleared that up as I did wonder if he was the Walter in Bahamas. I came across a photo of his headstone and thought it said born 1861, a second look tells me it is indeed 1851.

[wimsey]

Marriage
Name Thomas Snelgrove
Spouse's Name Eleanor Goater
Event Date 25 Jul 1825
Event Place Alverstoke,Hampshire,England

yes, at some stage I think I decided that Eleanor, nee Goater, was buried on the same day that her daughter Eleanor/Ellenor was baptised

[elsinore]

Thomas Snelgrove son of William and Mary, baptised 4th Feb 1798 at Bishopstoke. There is a note on the record: "1 wk nee Snellgrove" I've no idea what it means.

Looking at the transcript on knightroots, it indicates that Thomas was 1 week old.

It also states that Mary's name was formerly Snellgrove (before she married William?).

Peter

[wimsey]

I wonder why he was given the middle name Butcher? It seems odd that Elinor gave him to her sister, after all her husband had died a few years before George's birth, and Elinor was certainly in a financial position to look after him. Perhaps it was to save face! Doesn't explain the middle name Butcher though!

yes I have limited knowledge of social conditions at the time - was an illegitimate child a thing of great shame ? Ellenor was still only 30 years old when her husband died. She could have remarried though it looks as if financially she didn't need to. Baby George's father may have been a married man I guess. By 1869 Ellenor had moved with her children right away from Bishopstoke and never returned there.