Army birth records

[essbee]

Can anyone tell me whether the entries in the British Nationals Armed Forces Births were recorded independently of the civic birth records, or were they copied from one to the other? I'm looking at a birth in Ireland in the 1870s and the parents names are not what I'd expect, but the two records both give the same names.

[geneius]

ON FMP select births / marriages / deaths etc, in record set type British Nationals Armed Forces births

[macwil]

It may be that entirely by co-incidence there are two families with the same names but different parents, or your previous information was erroneous. You need to verify the probity of that information.

[Peter Goodey]

the entries in the British Nationals Armed Forces Births

"British Nationals Armed Forces Births" is a term invented by Findmypast and doesn't relate directly to the real world.

Civil and military records are separate animals.

See this document (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/495993/Events_Recorded_in_England_and_Wales_Jan_2016.pdf) which lists the sources of "overseas" records. This is England and Wales but the same principles apply to Ireland.

Perhaps it might help if you were more specific with the problem.

[Peter Goodey]

You said 1870s. Don't forget the Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Army) Act of 1879.

[essbee]

Thanks everyone. The child in question is Charles Newman, born in Bantry, Cork on Oct 1, 1876. His father Charles Newman was with the 50th regiment. The unexpected mother's name is Susan Whybrew, the wife of another soldier. Quite possibly so, but I'd like to know for sure. In the 1881 census the child is in Bristol with Charles and his wife Mary.

I've revisited the records and found that the one on Ancestry which gives the parents names comes from familysearch and is a based on mix of records, so not very reliable. The entries on fmp for the Irish civil births registrations and the GRO regimental Births don't include parent's names.
I'd like to order a birth certificate. Where would I go for that?

[Peter Goodey]

I'd like to order a birth certificate. Where would I go for that?

Two certificates, surely?

Order the army one from GRO (England and Wales)
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Make sure you specify that it's an Overseas record.

Order the Irish one by post from GRO Roscommon
Download the application form from here...
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx

I would advise you to ignore the line "To apply for a certificate on line please click here"

The content of the two certificates may not be identical.

[essbee]

I would advise you to ignore the line "To apply for a certificate on line please click here".

Thanks for all the information Peter. I'm curious about why it's better to order by mail from the Irish site? Ordering online from the English GRO site seems to work well.

[Peter Goodey]

I'm curious about why it's better to order by mail from the Irish site?

Because you don't need a certificates as such. See the application form. "Photocopies of entries in the registers are also available at a cost of €4.00. These contain exactly the same information as a Certificate but are only of use for research purposes". These can be emailed to you.

Of course if you particularly want to pay the full €20 plus postage, don't let me stop you :biggrin:

[essbee]

I see. No, I'll keep my 20 euros, thanks, that sounds like a much better option :)

[essbee]

Thanks everyone. The child in question is Charles Newman, born in Bantry, Cork on Oct 1, 1876. His father Charles Newman was with the 50th regiment. The unexpected mother's name is Susan Whybrew, the wife of another soldier. Quite possibly so, but I'd like to know for sure

I'm glad I took your advice and sent for the certificates. It's taken a while, but the one from GRO (Army Register of Births Baptisms and Marriages) has just arrived and it not only gives Charles' mother's name as Mary Newman but it also gives a different date of birth to the one provided online (July 1 1876 rather than October).

The certificate from the Irish registry hasn't arrived yet, but I think, given the error with the dates, it's more likely to confirm than contradict the GRO entry. It would be almost physically impossible for Susan to give birth in July 1876.

I'm still puzzling over how Susan Whybrew's name came into it. Perhaps her daughter, born the previous year, was the last birth registered to the 50th regiment prior to Charles' birth and someone made an error transcribing? Anyhow, if anyone wants a copy of the GRO certificate of Charles' birth, or all my (probably pointless but fascinating) research into the Newman family, just PM me!