Clarke/Lloyd family from Tenby

[John NZ]

Hi
I am researching the Clarke/Lloyd family from Tenby.

Leonard Clarke married Henrietta Lloyd 17 Mar 1895 in Tenby. Almost straight away they moved to Cannock in Staffordshire.

They had 3 children together, Henrietta appears to have had 2 children before marriage & another after her husband died in 1899.

Ethel Hilda b1889 (father unknown)
Harold Richard b1894 (father unknown)
Ellen Isabella b1895 (died young)
Henrietta b1897
Leonard Charles b1898
Isabella Maud b1901 (father unknown)

I am interested in in any information you would be willing to share.

Thanks

John

[Sue Mackay]

You can download an original image of their marriage certificate with a few credits from FindmyPast. Leonard was formerly a soldier in the Worcestershire regiment, which possibly explains why they did not stay in Tenby.

[janbooth]

John,

Are you trying to forwards, backwards or both? Do you have census records for Henrietta both before and after her marriage? For instance, she is living with her parents Thomas & Sarah LLOYD in the 1891 census of Tenby (RG12/4528, folio 38, page 23) at Edwards Street. She has been transcribed as Harrietta LLOYD and it would appear that daughter Ethel Hilda is with her but shown as Hildar LLOYD aged 18 months. The information on this census record fits in with the parish register entry of Henrietta's marriage that Sue has detailed above.

Leonard CLARKE's Military record is also available on FindmyPast and gives you the address of his father, details of his service and a physical description. His medical record makes very interesting reading and maybe explains why he died at a relatively young age - well worth the money in my opinion. Henrietta's 1911 census record, when she is back in Tenby and a widow, is also interesting in that she has 2 of her sisters living with her, so will give you information about them too.

Janet

[helachau]

1871 Census reference RG10 5514 14 27

Amongst those listed is William Parsell, age 50, Brother in Law to Thomas Lloyd, Head, wife Sarah.

Marriage details - Thomas Lloyd, Dec Qtr 1865, Pembroke, 11a 1348 - on the same page Sarah Parsell. I have been looking through the marriage registers for St. Mary, Tenby but cannot find a record for Thomas and Sarah at that period. Mmmm- so where did they marry?

1881 Census - reference RG11 5410 23 40
Includes a 7yr old Henrietta

There's a St. Mary, Tenby burial record for Sarah Lloyd, Edward St, age 54, buried 13 April 1895

[helachau]

Baptisms St. Mary, Tenby

Henrietta, bap June 21st 1873, abode Back Chimney Park, father Thomas Lloyd, occ. labourer, mother Sarah

"abode, Back Chimney Park" fits the '71 and '81 Census address..

[Pam Downes]

Other people have been cleverer than me at finding Henrietta in the census. Even with the knowledge that she was living in Tenby in 1911 I still spent at least ten minutes trying to find her. (Probably because I'm not used to women making themselves older in the census. :smile5: Henrietta says she's 39, when she's only 36.)
So for the future the 1911 census reference is RG14/33142 SN182.

Several hours later I have finally found everyone in 1901. Had problems finding mum and Harold but didn't use brain and eyes enough. :biggrin:
Henrietta and three children are in the Pembroke Poor Law Union Workhouse in Pembroke.
Nettie Clark, aged 28, RG13/5123 folio 145 page 2
Nettie Clarke, aged 4, RG13/5123 folio 147 page 5
Harold R Clark, aged 8, and Leonard C Clark, aged 2, are both on RG13/5123 folio 146 page 4
Note that Nettie junior is the only one with an 'e' at the end of Clark.

I think daughter Ethel Hilda is with Henrietta's elder sister Mary in 1901. Listed as Hilda Lloyd, daughter of Mary, she's aged 11, born Tenby, and the only other Hilda Lloyd born 1888-1892 in Pembroke registration district is Hilda Gertrude and she's the daughter of Frederick and Margaret. 1901 census reference for Ethel Hilda is RG12/5121 folio 41 page 39.

The 1891 census entry (see post # 2 for reference) has Thomas and Sarah with three grandchildren all aged 18 months so I did wonder if they were triplets - one birth registration on page 953 in the GRO Index and the other two on page 954 means that's a possibility. But baptism records record that the children have different mothers. Baptism dates are on FamilySearch, with images of the parish registers on FMP.

Pam

[John NZ]

Thanks for the replies.

The 3 granddaughters listed in the 1991 census was a distraction till I came across their baptism records.

The Lloyd family are interesting to say the least, what's the odds on 3 daughter's all having babies within months of each other, before marriage in 1889.

It is going forward I am have run out of luck on,

Ethel Hilda I lose sight of her after her 1901 census entry
Harold Richard born Harold Richard Lloyd married Nellie Phillips 1915 died 1934 Newport.
Ellen Isabella born 1895 died 1896
Henrietta I lose sight of her after the 1911 Census
Leonard Charles (my grandfather)
Isabella Maud born 1901 moved to London prior to 1931 married Gerald Graham 1931 died 1974

The timing of Henrietta Lloyd & Leonard Clarke's wedding is also interesting, Leonard left the army
12 Feb 1895 & married 17 Mar 1895!

The Clarke side of the family originate from Pershore in Worcestershire.

John

[janbooth]

John,

What appears to be Henrietta's burial record in Tenby is on FMP in August 1922. She looks to have died in an Asylum in Carmarthen. There is also a Marriage Banns record for her on FMP in March 1922, but no marriage record that I can see, so did her prospective bridegroom jilt her and she perhaps ended up in the Asylum. Poor Henrietta, she didn't have much luck in her life, did she.

Janet

[John NZ]

Janet
Yes it certainly looks that way, I also have not been able to trace Stanley Tilley!

There is another Lloyd/Tilley connection, in Henrietta's sister Sarah Ann married William Samuel Tilley in 1902.

On checking last night, I now think Henrietta's first daughter Ethel Hilda born 1889 married Albert Wrenn not Henrietta's Sister!

John

[Pam Downes]

Thanks for the replies.

The 3 granddaughters listed in the 1991 census was a distraction till I came across their baptism records.

The Lloyd family are interesting to say the least, what's the odds on 3 daughter's all having babies within months of each other, before marriage in 1889.

It is going forward I am have run out of luck on,

Ethel Hilda I lose sight of her after her 1901 census entry
Harold Richard born Harold Richard Lloyd married Nellie Phillips 1915 died 1934 Newport.
To avoid doubt, Harold married and died as Harold Clarke.
There are quite a few children with the surname of Clarke and whose mother's maiden name was Phillips with birth registrations in Wales, so it's impossible to make even an educated guess as to which, if any, might be yours.
You would have to request the birth certificate of one of them - look for ones born nearest to Newport or Pembroke registration districts - specifying that the parents names must be Harold Richard and Nellie. If the names don't match then you get your money back. http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
I think if you want the GRO to check parents' names then you omit the volume and page numbers when filling out the form. You can either email them to check, or give someone with a better memory than me a yell on BG.:smile5:



Ellen Isabella born 1895 died 1896
Henrietta I lose sight of her after the 1911 Census
Leonard Charles (my grandfather)
Isabella Maud born 1901 moved to London prior to 1931 married Gerald Graham 1931 died 1974

The timing of Henrietta Lloyd & Leonard Clarke's wedding is also interesting, Leonard left the army
12 Feb 1895 & married 17 Mar 1895!

The Clarke side of the family originate from Pershore in Worcestershire.

John
Drat. I thought I'd found a possible marriage for Henrietta junior but on checking the death registration the birth dates don't add up. I knew the year wasn't correct to 1897, but then I found the day and month didn't add up either.
Do you have Henrietta's birth certificate with the date?

Isabella and Gerald may have had three children. There's birth registrations in 1931 (Lambeth), 1934 (Lewisham) and 1936 (Surrey South Eastern) with Graham/Clarke parents. Again, you could ask the GRO for the birth certificate of one of them and specify the parent's names.
Do you have Isabella and Graham's marriage certificate with Graham's age on it?

Pam

[John NZ]

Pam
Thanks

Finding Nellies Phillips parents was also not that easy even with her parents names as in their marriage cert.

Harold's death I believe was in 1934, the dates do add up, plus their is a record of a Nellie Clarke marrying Q4 1934 in Newport

I only know of one daughter Susan (I believe her name shows up on Isabella's death cert) for Gerald & Isabella.

To the best of my knowledge Gerald was born 1885 & died 1940, but I do not have any other reliable data.

John

[janbooth]

John,

An Ethel H CLARK married a Harold FERGUSON in the September qtr 1917 at Pembroke reg district - perhaps your Ethel Hilda??

Janet

[Pam Downes]

Pam
Thanks

Finding Nellies Phillips parents was also not that easy even with her parents names as in their marriage cert.

Harold's death I believe was in 1934, the dates do add up, plus their is a record of a Nellie Clarke marrying Q4 1934 in Newport

I only know of one daughter Susan (I believe her name shows up on Isabella's death cert) for Gerald & Isabella.

To the best of my knowledge Gerald was born 1885 & died 1940, but I do not have any other reliable data.

John
The death registration for Gerald in 1940 in Barnstaple registration district would fit an Isabella M Graham born 1901 and a Gerald Graham born 1886 living in Barnstaple R.D. in the 1939 Register. (Available on FMP, you can buy a set of credits which are enough for one household.) It says that as well as Isabella and Gerald there are three other people you can see plus five more who are officially closed. Sounds as if there might be some adults with their children who are lodgers in the same house; might be Isabella and Gerald who are the lodgers. I'd certainly invest a few dollars. It all depends on where the 'closed' entries are as to who else might belong to whom. Once you've accessed (unlocked) a record you can check it again in the future (make sure you re-search using the same name as you did to unlock it) because FMP do 'un-close' records as they check death records.

Might also be worth getting a copy of Isabella's will. https://
probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=graham&yearOfDeath=1974&page=4#calendar
Fill in the details at the side of the page and order online. A tenner in English money, unless it's gone up since I last ordered.

Pam (who can spend other people's money faster than they can! :biggrin:)

[John NZ]

Pam
Thanks I will give that a try
Gerald & Isabella were at 15 Dacres Rd at the time of the 1932 electoral roll was taken, a Winifred Eva Slater was at the same address

Gerald & Isabella were at the same address for the 1936 electoral roll along with a Alison Cooper & Margaret O'Flaherty

John