Theft of bread

[Dudley1]

Hi, Where do I start please?

In 1908 my Grandfather Frank Harold Matthews DOB 1891 aged 17 living in London, was caught steeling a loaf of bread. His punishment was to be sent to Yorkshire to serve hard labour in the Three Nuns mine near Wakefield in Yorkshire.. This we have from information handed down through the family.

I should like to confirm the above and find out more information. Ideally I would like to locate court papers or newspaper clips, or even archived records of mine employees at that time from that mine.
I have found out there was a Three Nuns Coal Mine.
We think he did a runner from the mine and didn't serve his full time. He told a tale of workmen with a steam roller working on the road taking sympathy on this bedraggled starving lad and feeding him with food cooked at the roadside on the back of a shovel. He made his way home on foot from Yorkshire to London. This may have been due to him absconding, but also, if he was not given a return rail ticket after he served all his sentence he would have to walk.
The mine must have been tough for him if he did run away as Grandad was no softie.
Shortly after in 1910 he joined the Army, served in India, and survived the entire 1914/18 great war, even though he was wounded by bullet and shrapnel 4 times. finally left the Army in 1922.
So any help would be great.
Thank you
Thanks Steve Matthews.

[pwholt]

He doesn't appear in the Old Bailey online records, so I expect he was dealt with at a local level. You need to discover where he was living in London, to discover which court would deal with his "crime" - was it a magistrate's court or something else? Where was the family living in 1901, from the census? pwholt

[Megan Roberts]

I could not find anything in FMP's newspaper archives.

[christanel]

Hi
I can't help with newspaper articles either but was just wondering if you have your grandfather's service record from the MOD. As he served beyond 1920 they should have it. This 'sticky' (http://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/81920-Finding-service-records-for-WW2-and-after?p=585757#post585757)explains.

Christina

[Dudley1]

Hi
I can't help with newspaper articles either but was just wondering if you have your grandfather's service record from the MOD. As he served beyond 1920 they should have it. This 'sticky' (http://www.british-genealogy.com/threads/81920-Finding-service-records-for-WW2-and-after?p=585757#post585757)explains.

Christina

Hi Christina,
I have just downloaded and completed the MOD form to request his service records.
Thank you.

[Dudley1]

Thanks for looking.

[Dudley1]

He doesn't appear in the Old Bailey online records, so I expect he was dealt with at a local level. You need to discover where he was living in London, to discover which court would deal with his "crime" - was it a magistrate's court or something else? Where was the family living in 1901, from the census? pwholt

The Matthews family were living at No2 Addey ST in Depford London in 1901. Head was William James Matthews, but both he and wife Emma died in 1911 so I cannot find the Matthews family in 1911 census. And of course Grandad F H Matthews was in the army in 1910.
I have no idea what court, if it was a court. But to be sent away from home, I would assume it would have been some sort of criminal court.
Thanks Steve

[Megan Roberts]

It might be worth trying the London Metropolitan Archives to see if they can help:

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/visiting-the-city/archives-and-city-history/london-metropolitan-archives/about-lma/Pages/default.aspx

[almach]

Do you think he was probably sent to prison, and did hard labour in the coal mine? The Three Nuns colliery was near Hartshead/Mirfield. There's a prison in Wakefield and perhaps he was an inmate there. Wakefield Archives may have a record.

http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/

[geneius]

Rifleman / Bugler Frank Harold MATTHEWS, discharge papers are on a family tree on ancestry owned by a StevefMatthews

Reg no 4016 enlisted 26 Oct 1910 service no 6905477?

[geneius]

1901 RG13; Piece: 527; Folio: 13; Page: 18

MATHEWS

1911

Frederick Ernest MATTHEWS b 1896 Boys' Home Industrial School, Regent's Park Road, St Pancras N W

[Dudley1]

Rifleman / Bugler Frank Harold MATTHEWS, discharge papers are on a family tree on ancestry owned by a StevefMatthews

Reg no 4016 enlisted 26 Oct 1910 service no 6905477?

That's me, so I have that info, I am trying to find out about his time in the coal pit for theft of bread before he joined the army. But thank you for looking.
Steve

[Dudley1]

1901 RG13; Piece: 527; Folio: 13; Page: 18

MATHEWS

1911

Frederick Ernest MATTHEWS b 1896 Boys' Home Industrial School, Regent's Park Road, St Pancras N W

Oh that's brilliant. He is my Great Uncle. He is in my research for the family tree. He was in the London Brigade in 1914-15 (short Service) but must have joined the Territorial Army when they formed up after WW1 as I have a photo of him as corporal and an Regimental Policeman.Something else for me to look into.

All good fun, but I could do with not having to work so I had the time todo it. :-)

thanks again. Steve.

[Peter Goodey]

I am trying to find out about his time in the coal pit for theft of bread before he joined the army.

You need to be familiar with this Research Guide (http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/criminal-trial-or-conviction.htm)

Do please bear in mind that Grandads love to tell tall tales and Chinese Whispers play their part.

[Dudley1]

You need to be familiar with this Research Guide (http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/criminal-trial-or-conviction.htm)

Do please bear in mind that Grandads love to tell tall tales and Chinese Whispers play their part.

Thank you for that link it very useful.
And I just wish my Grandad did tell his tales. My Father told me his Dad never spoke of his parents or his early years. There are only four living children of my Grandad my two Aunts and two Uncles and they know nothing much either.

But I will get there. Thanks.

[geneius]

#11
1911 RG14; Piece: 683

I entered Frank Ernest MATTHEWS b 1896 London

h/hold Charles Francis Roache 1868 Wrington, Somerset, England

You were looking for info to back your grandfathers story to Yorkshire up....at the same time suggest you cannot find family members on the 1911 census. I see there was 3 girls born 1881 - 1885 then WIlliam TC may I suggest you create a seperate post for that search linking it back to this

[Dudley1]

#11
1911 RG14; Piece: 683

I entered Frank Ernest MATTHEWS b 1896 London

h/hold Charles Francis Roache 1868 Wrington, Somerset, England

You were looking for info to back your grandfathers story to Yorkshire up....at the same time suggest you cannot find family members on the 1911 census. I see there was 3 girls born 1881 - 1885 then WIlliam TC may I suggest you create a seperate post for that search linking it back to this

Thanks. I found it straight away. I was inputting too much info I think.
Thank you again.