Interbreeding

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

I have in one of my family files, a certain Sydney TWIDDY b. 1887 who married into my husband's family, but they had no children, much to the disappointment of both families. His Mother was Frances Elizabeth WELBY, and I noticed a couple of marriages between first cousins, when researching the Welby line.

After receiving a ton of info from someone in Australia, I've found out that my Sydney is distantly connected to the DARWIN family, via his Gt.Gt.Grandmother, Elizabeth Mary HALL. There are a couple of marriages between first cousins in that family too.

Then when the DARWIN's connect to the WEDGWOOD's ...... I found some in that family too! :eek:

Can this inbreeding cause some descendants to be childless, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[AnnB]

Hello Diane

What you have described sounds a bit like some of my husband's family ;) At one point his great grandmother married her half uncle, thus (according to one of these clever relationship calculators) not only is Bob her great grandson but also her half cousin twice removed :D It probably means that Bob is his own cousin or something equally weird!

As to the interbreeding, there was an awful lot of cousins marrying cousins, especially amongst the 'nobs' (which could explain a lot, but we won't go into that!) but I think the main outcome of such interbreeding is the appearance of genetic diseases, ie if two people of the same family with a genetic disorder marry, the liklihood of their offspring having that disease increases. I'm not too well up on genetics, I expect there may be someone out there much more clued up on it than me, but it is a fascinating topic.

Best wishes
Ann

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hello Ann,

We seem to be fated with our families don't we? Apart from my HONNIBALL's :D who kept moving about on Census returns, my family is a bit boring!

It's Gerry's families which are interesting, I have to admit. The thing is, he has two illegal marriages in his family and Sydney TWIDDY's Parents are one of the naughty couples. Frances Elizabeth WELBY, was the niece of her husband, Arthur TWIDDY ...... no blood tie, but still an illegal marriage. :(

[Di&Trev]

Hi everyone
Talking about inbreeding I have the following
Mother & Father Hugh & Grace in the 1700’s.
9 Children.
Child 2 marries had daughter Sarah (1) who married William(2), William & Sarah have daughter Elizabeth(3) who marries John (4), and have child Samuel (5). Samuel marries Sarah(6) and has a daughter Jane (7).

Child 3. Marries has daughter Mary(8) who marries Samuel(9) has child John (4) see above. Jane (7) is the daughter.

Child 4. Marries has daughter Elizabeth(10) who marries Henry(11), has daughter Elizabeth(12) who marries Robert(13) has daughter Sarah (6). Jane (7) is the daughter.

Other Children of the first marriage also marry into the lines of the ones above. I hate to think what a chart :confused: would do with this one. It’s a wonder they all didn’t end up with 6 toes at the very least. There must be at least 6 cousin marriages in just this little lot. :eek:

Warm regards

[Guy Etchells]

There is a slight chance of genetic disorders with such inbreeding, but by the same token there is a good chance of strengthening of good aspects of a line as well.
Farmers and animal breeders have used such inbreeding to increase the size of animals and to bring out desirable aspects for centuries.
Cheers
Guy

[Ron Leech]

At one point his great grandmother married her half uncle, thus (according to one of these clever relationship calculators) not only is Bob her great grandson but also her half cousin twice removed :D It probably means that Bob is his own cousin or something equally weird!
I have a couple of instances of that in my family such that family Tree Maker kinship report tells me that I am my own 4th cousin!

[AnnB]

I have a couple of instances of that in my family such that family Tree Maker kinship report tells me that I am my own 4th cousin!
I hope you send yourself a birthday card ;)

Best wishes
Ann

[Ron Leech]

I hope you send yourself a birthday card ;) At least I now know where the temporary insanity comes from! I always suspected there was something strange about my grandmother's family. Interestingly one of the occurance was in north Devon.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Thanks to everyone for the replies and the laughs along the way too! Diane, your posting 'tied me up in knots' ...... I'm relieved that I didn't have to sort that lot out! :)

Trust me to use the wrong word in my title |blush| I'll see if I can correct it!

[Mythology]

Diane, you are aware of my incestuous vicar who shacked up with his sister's daughter and passed her off as his wife.

No shortage of children, ten of them that I know of - but only four reached the age of ten. One died aged 6, one aged 1, and four at less than 1 year old.
I feel that this may not be coincidence.

(Incidentally, somebody reckons that they had thirteen kids, but I think they've got confused and counted the three from his real marriage as well. The said somebody also reckons that he and his niece "married abroad" :D )

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

Hi Myth :D

Oooh yes, I had forgotten about him! Well, it does seem that Gerry's family have a fair bit in common with yours then, (though not as bad as yours!) ;)

Mind you, I love hearing about all their escapades, so thanks for your last email with the latest news, I'm a bit slow in responding to my mail at the moment - due to pressure of work! (Trying to read my CD's from Archive CD Books!)

[AnnB]

At least I now know where the temporary insanity comes from! I always suspected there was something strange about my grandmother's family. Interestingly one of the occurance was in north Devon.
And just what are you implying :D Mind you, with the amount of suicides due to 'temporary insanity' in my (mainly) North Devon lot, I am beginning to wonder!


I'm a bit slow in responding to my mail at the moment - due to pressure of work! (Trying to read my CD's from Archive CD Books!)
That's the sort of work I quite enjoy ;)
Best wishes
Ann

[Linda]

I have a couple of instances of that in my family such that family Tree Maker kinship report tells me that I am my own 4th cousin!
Similarly, my parents were 2nd cousins. The kinship report tells me that each of them are not only my parents but also my 2nd cousins once removed, and spouse of my second cousins once removed.

That also makes me my own 3rd cousin :D

Linda

[busyglen]

I'm a bit slow and have only just caught up with this thread!!

I had a gt. aunt and uncle who were first cousins, and who married. Sadly, they didn't have any children either, which was a shame as they were such a lovely couple!

Glenys

[GeoffD]

My mother's brother married his cousin (well, same grandfather, different grandmother) and this meant that a whole stack of beautiful and informative photographs and other useful stuff got passed to me.

But in the Otter Valley, there seemed to be a round-robin of marriages between WHITE, DYER, CARTER, BRIDLE and PAVER families, with the odd HARRIS thrown in for good measure. Print outs of some of my descendant's charts are full of "also listed on page x" notations.


I turned out alright! *twitch twitch*

[Mythology]

There's an *awful* lot of that in my Suffolk lot - so much so that on occasions I've looked at a couple on a census and thought
"Right - I don't have the marriage, so who's the wife? Aged **, born (a), hmmm... OK, pound to a penny that's Lucy (b) then. Oh - her lot moved to (c), didn't they? Where's my NBI? Ah - yes, she's not buried with hubby, she's listed at (c), so that'll be her buried back with her parents - that's where I need to look for the marriage."
Nine times out of ten my guess has turned out to be right.

[Ron Leech]

Hi Ann


And just what are you implying :D Mind you, with the amount of suicides due to 'temporary insanity' in my (mainly) North Devon lot, I am beginning to wonder!

The temporary insanity belong entirely to my own lot, no hidden meanings there. The instance of cousins marrying was started by my north Devon crew.

[Diane Grant-Salmon]

I find the responses to this thread very interesting, it's funny how different families, (or some family members) hold entirely different views to others in the same family.

When my husband was 18, he and his first cousin, Jennifer, used to go out together a lot, as they enjoyed each other's company and had a lot in common. They were 'just friends' but their Grandmother *frowned* on their friendship ...... putting two and two together and making five!

She droned on about it so much to her children, that Gerry and Jennifer stopped going out together ....... anything for a quiet life! :D

[GeoffD]

Forty years ago, at age 18, I became reacquainted with a cousin that I hadn't seen since we were toddlers. There was so much behind-the-scenes frowning that we let the frendship lapse, and even now when we have the opportunity to meet again both of us have been a bit 'iffy' about it.

Strangely, her name is Jennifer!

[Brian Turnbull]

My grandfather married his niece ie: the daughter of his eldest sister. They moved to a different state but did not actually marry until 2 years before his death and after 5 children. My father discoved the late marriage when in his late 20's when he applied for a birth certificate and was mortified.

It helps explain why gfather and gmother cut all connections with their familiesand concocted stories as to why but also carefully didn't let on what other relatives they had.Took me a while to sort out who was who and to verify I had the correct ones in my research. Caused some hand wringing in the family when the connections were pointed out.

[Clive Blackaby]

My grandfather was the 13th of 13 children, and was apparently very sweet on his niece who was 8 years younger than himself. Both of his parents were "only children", and he always regretted that he had no cousins, uncles or aunts.

As with other cases on this forum, I gather the relationship was supressed, and he eventually married his elder brother's wife's little sister instead. I think that makes me my own half first cousin, but I'm not sure.

On a technical note, have any of you found any software that doesn't make a total porridge of trying to draw charts of anything where two people are related by more than one route. FTM certainly can't cope with them

[Ron Leech]

On a technical note, have any of you found any software that doesn't make a total porridge of trying to draw charts of anything where two people are related by more than one route. FTM certainly can't cope with them
Hi Clive

My version works alright with cousins who married in the descendants view, probably won't like it so much in the "all in one tree".

[Burrow Digger]

I have my great grandfather's sister marying her first cousin - their fathers were brothers. According to the info my aunt found out -

they had a total of 6 children
2 children are noted as having died in infancy
2 children named Freddy & Elsie are said to have been retarded
(possibly due to parents being cousins)
and 2 daughters grew to adulthood

So far I have found only one of the adult daughters record of marriage and have only one child for her as well. The adult daughter married someone entirely unrelated as far as I can tell. :D

BD

[morrisb2]

I am my own cousin. Apparently, the early American colonists didn't have a great number of available families to choose from without traveling vast distances. As a result, I am my own 7th cousin, 10th cousin, half-10th cousin, and 10th cousin once removed. Who knows, there may be more?!?!

[Burrow Digger]

My parents in-laws were actually related in 3 different ways - they were 3rd cousins twice over and 4th cousins as well. :)

BD

[KatieB]

my fathers cousin married the daughter of another of his cousins (1st cousin once removed), they have one son who is his own cousin several times over.

[AW014R2799]

To Dianne,Ron,AnnB,Di and Trev,

I want to thank you for making my day. After a boring day looking for my relatives i thought i'd have a look at messages on B-G. I have never laughed so much, it made my day. I have the same thing in my family, my gran was her brothers step sister and his aunt.
Thanks once again,
Val.

[joette]

My parents became step-brother/step-sister when my Mum's Dad married my Dad's Mum.I vaguely remember the event & it made the Sunday Papers-not the News of the World but the Sunday Post! The family Doctor told my Mum "It will be the Readers Digest if they have any children" Granny was well into her sixties by then.

[GeoffD]

My great grandparents were both 2nd and 3rd cousins. G-grandmother's parents were second cousins, Gggrandfather's parents were first cousins. It's those ruddy PAVER and BRIDLE families, egged on by the WHITE and DYER lot.

As to software, Legacy (the full version, not the free one) seems to handle these complications fairly well, and has an "ignore potential problems" button for really problematic persons. One other application, which shall remain nameless, had a conniption trying to nut out my Devon lot.

But Cuddles (my 3rd cousin) and I turned out OK Twitch, twitch.

[Mythology]

"I turned out OK Twitch, twitch."

Well, I *think* I did - nobody's locked me up yet.
However, as mentioned in another thread, on following things up I recently found two of mine in different branches on the census as lunatics. There's also one branch who I asked mum about years ago and she said "Well, I can tell you who they are but I don't know what happened to them later - they're all as mad as hatters so I've never had a thing to do with them since the day I left home."

I'm getting a bit worried now! |help|