PDA

View Full Version : Williams/pettingall



pcoups
07-09-2005, 3:57 AM
My knowledge of London/England is from maps. I have posted this same cry for help on the Surrey site I'm not trying to jam the system just didn't know where my cry would be loudest. I'm really needing some help Please!
I've looked through LDS, Free BDM and Ancestry Uk. Now unless I'm completely daft I can't find this family. Can't find them on 1861 census either. Here's what I have been given - none of this can I verify
Fanny Frederica Rosina WILLIAMS born 13 May 1846 Newington, Surrey to George WILLIAMS and Fanny ???? maybe PETTINGALL. Fanny Frederica Rosina was baptised 1849 at St Mary's Newington, Surrey(from my multimap and Middelsex map this is south of London - south of the Thames?)
George was born abt 1815 and married abt 1840 to Fanny PETTINGALL who was born abt 1820.
George was in the Army and they lived at Berkley Street, Grosvenor Square, London at the time of Fanny Frederica Rosina's baptism(from my multimap and Middelsex map this is North West of London - North of the Thames? Well Grosvenor Sq is I don't find Berkley St) Lived on the North side but travelled to south side to baptize child?
At the time of Fanny Frederica Rosina's marriage in 1865 the family was in New Zealand. If they were just visiting for the marriage or if they lived there I haven't been able to find out.
I have the marriage certificate for Fanny Frederica Rosina WILLIAMS to Edmund Lewis ROGERS in Invercargill New Zealand in 1865. It has her age as 19 that would make her birthdate 1846. One of the witnesses is either Elisa or Elvira PETTINGALL.
I also have her baptism certificate. On that it gives her birth date as 13 or maybe 15th May 1844 or 1846.
The baptism and marriage certificates both have her names as Fanny, Frederica Rosina WILLIAMS and that of her mother is also just Fanny.
Ancestry and free BDM have possible matches .... but the Frances name worries me.
LDS also has a Frances WILLIAMS but born 24 May 1844. St Marylebone (would that tie in with the Grosvenor Sq address?)
The marriage cert copy I have is very clear but ber baptism cert isn't. I think I found possible matches for the 1846 birthdate as well.
I suppose the way to go would be to buy the birth cert but as there are a couple of possibilities I was hoping some-one would have a cheaper solution.
Help please!!!
Lynn

Geoffers
07-09-2005, 10:07 AM
none of this can I verify...Fanny Frederica Rosina WILLIAMS born 13 May 1846 Newington, Surrey to George WILLIAMS and Fanny ???? maybe PETTINGALL. Fanny Frederica Rosina was baptised 1849 at St Mary's Newington......George was born abt 1815 and married abt 1840 to Fanny PETTINGALL who was born abt 1820. George was in the Army...........I have the marriage certificate for Fanny Frederica Rosina WILLIAMS to Edmund Lewis ROGERS in Invercargill New Zealand in 1865. It has her age as 19......I also have her baptism certificate. On that it gives her birth date as 13 or maybe 15th May 1844 or 1846.
You say Fanny was baptised 1849 and then also 1844/46, which is abit confusing - do you know which is correct?

Do you know in which regiment George served, was he an officer or other rank? Is this recorded in the certificate of baptism, the parish register or in Fanny's marriage certificate? Do you know when Geogre left the army?

continued....

Geoffers
07-09-2005, 10:08 AM
part 2......

Searching TNA's online catalogue
http://www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp
enter George Williams in 'word or phrase' and in 'department or series code' enter WO. This brings up the Soldiers' Documents which have been indexed up to the mid-1850's.

There aren't that many who may have been born about 1815 and so served from around 1835 onwards. You'll note that one is shown as born St Marylebone and served for just a couple of years up to 1844. It's very tempting to think this might be your chap, but don't assume it is yet - just keep him in mind as a possibility. A lot depends on other information which you may know about him.

Have you tried to find this family in the 1851 census? If there was a marriage in NZ in 1865, they may well have emigrated by 1861.

Geoffers

pcoups
09-09-2005, 2:18 AM
You say Fanny was baptised 1849 and then also 1844/46, which is abit confusing - do you know which is correct?

Do you know in which regiment George served, was he an officer or other rank? Is this recorded in the certificate of baptism, the parish register or in Fanny's marriage certificate? Do you know when Geogre left the army?

continued....
Geoffers,
The baptism certificate on the heading is very clearly dated 1849 but it has in the column: When Baptised "May 13 (or 15) born May 1844 (or again 1846)" To me the date looks like 1844 but it could also be 1846. The trade or profession of George in the army and the address is all from the baptism certificate. I know absolutely nothing about the family. Years ago....(it looks like when photocopy machines were invented) some-one in the family went to Invercargill and on a day visit asked a 'Genealogist" to do some research. I have found a few errors in the info that was handed down and other than the copies of the baptism and marriage certificate I haven't found any proof of the info....The mothers name Fanny PETTINGALL being one of them. The birth date of Fanny WILLIAMS another. FreeBDM has a Fanny WILLIAMS birth June Q 1846 which I have applied for. It'll take about two weeks to get to Oz. That would fit into the age at marriage ... 19
I was hoping SKS would perhaps be able to find the WILLIAMS family at the address in Berkley st, Grosvenor Square in 1851 census. I'm hoping that they haven't moved within the two years. I also don't know how much searching that would involve.
You mentioned that there might be a file to do with George WILLIAMS among the army archives. Are there people not employed by the archives that do look ups or do I have to apply to the Archives themselves to get a peek?
Thanks
Lynn

Geoffers
09-09-2005, 8:33 AM
The baptism certificate on the heading is very clearly dated 1849 but it has in the column: When Baptised "May 13 (or 15) born May 1844 (or again 1846)"
Sorry, I should have read your message properly - born 1844/46 and bapt in 1849 makes sense.


FreeBDM has a Fanny WILLIAMS birth June Q 1846 which I have applied for. It'll take about two weeks to get to Oz.
I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's the correct certificate and gives the father's regiment.


I was hoping SKS would perhaps be able to find the WILLIAMS family at the address in Berkley st, Grosvenor Square in 1851 census.
Sorry, can't help with that.

continued......

Geoffers
09-09-2005, 8:35 AM
part 2......


I'm hoping that they haven't moved within the two years. I also don't know how much searching that would involve.There is/was a surname index to parts of the 1851 census for London area. It was available at Portugal Street and Chancery Lane, when the records were kept there. This has presumably been moved to the FRC for use by researchers.

It all depends on whether the area is covered by the index and if someone is willing to try hunting down the entry. Searching London Census returns can be a long job.

continued....

Geoffers
09-09-2005, 8:39 AM
part 3........


You mentioned that there might be a file to do with George WILLIAMS among the army archives. Are there people not employed by the archives that do look ups or do I have to apply to the Archives themselves to get a peek?
You can hire a professional to look up the entry for you, but unless the TNA web-site indicates otherwise, they don't employ people to take a peek - I fear that if they did, they would be inundated. Do check TNA's web-site though in case they now have a scheme where you can pay a standard fee to check that a document is the one you want.

You can apply for a copy of the document, online. There is a fee charged for this. If you get to the clutching at straws stage, you may consider it worthwhile taking a chance that the document shows his wife is mentioned as next-of-kin, possibly a marriage, possibly a birth of child. Note though that the dates served appear to be 1842-1844.

Geoffers

pcoups
09-09-2005, 11:50 PM
I guess the best is to wait for the birth certificate and as you say hopefully be the correct Fanny WILLIAMS ....hopefully it'll open a couple more doors.
Thanks for the help........perhaps we'll chat again in 2 weeks time.
Lynn

pcoups
15-09-2005, 9:14 AM
Birth cert arrived today...........not the correct Fanny Williams. Back to the drawing board I suppose.