French Polish!

[lizziebeth]

I have been told that my GT Grandmother was employed in her own right as a french polisher, and that she incorporated her surname with her husbands when they married, thereby becoming "double barrelled". Was there ever such a thing as a register or directory of trades people where i might find any information? She was born in 1873 in Govan, Lanark, and as far as i know lived in that area most of her life. Any help or advice would be most welcome. Thanks

[Mary Young]

Hi, Lizziebeth
Sorry, can't help with trade directories etc. But I've just done a search for "french polisher" in Lowlands Scotland, 1881 census, and was amazed to find 1179 people working at that trade. Many are young women, either daughters or lodgers of men in associated trades - joiners, furniture makers, even a "looking glass maker".
Do you know, was your gr-grandmother following in a family trade?

[Colin Moretti]

... Was there ever such a thing as a register or directory of trades people where i might find any information? She was born in 1873 in Govan, Lanark, and as far as i know lived in that area most of her life. Any help or advice would be most welcome. ThanksArchive CD Books produce a number of Post Office directories for Scotland. If she was self-employed then she is almost certain to be listed in a directory, they usually include a classified or alphabetical (by surname) trade section. If she was employed then she would not be listed under her trade, The street directory would not contain her unless she was head of household and not necessarily even then.

Good luck

Colin

[Wirral]

Married women in Scotland often kept their maiden name, either on its own or with their husband's surname.

[lizziebeth]

Hi, Lizziebeth
Sorry, can't help with trade directories etc. But I've just done a search for "french polisher" in Lowlands Scotland, 1881 census, and was amazed to find 1179 people working at that trade. Many are young women, either daughters or lodgers of men in associated trades - joiners, furniture makers, even a "looking glass maker".
Do you know, was your gr-grandmother following in a family trade?
Hello Mary, and thanks for your reply. My gr-grandmother was not following in a family trade,(well not directly,) her father was a shipyard labourer and mother an agricultural worker, (as stated on their marriage cert) they lived and married in Belfast, and must have moved to Scotland some time between their marriage and the birth of Mary. I dont know for sure if they had any other children, but i think there was possibly a son who emigrated to america.Mary was born in 1873 in Govan. Her parents married in Belfast in 1871, so that rather narrows down when they moved! If you feel kindly disposed, might you see if you can find them on the 1881 census? He was John Bogue(or Boag?) born 1841 and Ellen(possibly Helen) nee Halliday born 1843. I will be most approciative of anything you might find. Thank you.

[lizziebeth]

Archive CD Books produce a number of Post Office directories for Scotland. If she was self-employed then she is almost certain to be listed in a directory, they usually include a classified or alphabetical (by surname) trade section. If she was employed then she would not be listed under her trade, The street directory would not contain her unless she was head of household and not necessarily even then.

Good luck

Colin
Hi Colin, thanks for your reply. I am not entirely sure if she was self employed or not, so i will do a bit more detective work. Thanks again.

[lizziebeth]

Married women in Scotland often kept their maiden name, either on its own or with their husband's surname.
Hello Wirral. Thanks for the information, i was not aware that it was a common practice, to do this, maybe the feminist movement started in Scotland!!! Thanks.

[Mary Young]

... might you see if you can find them on the 1881 census? He was John Bogue (or Boag?) born 1841 and Ellen (possibly Helen) nee Halliday born 1843, daughter Mary born 1873. I will be most appreciative of anything you might find. Thank you. Well lizziebeth you have beaten me! :)
I expected to find them in a trice, but alas, no joy with Boag/Bogue/Bogie, even looked at all the "Bs", all the Marys born in Govan c.1872-4, any Helen/Ellen Hallidays etc. Nowhere in Scotland (Lowlands or Highlands), perhaps they'd gone back to Ireland for a while, or maybe just missed in the census.
What is your next sighting of the family after Mary's birth, were they in Scotland?

[lizziebeth]

Hello again Mary and thanks for your efforts so far! I have a copy of Marys' birth certificate which shows her having arrived in this world on 25.5.1873 (at 4.20am!) at 7 Queen Street, Govan. Proud parents were John Boag (brickbuilders labourer) and Helen Boag (nee Halliday).They, in turn were married 2.4.1871 at St Annes Parish Church, Belfast. His occupation at this time is given as Labourer.Then, in 1893, Mary married on 2nd June to Robert Donaldson,apprentice brassfinisher, her occupation listed as French Polisher. Her father was listed as deceased by this time, and mothers name spelt Ellen! Address given as usual residence was Robert- 7 Victoria Place, Clydebank and Mary - 16 Clydebank Terrace, Clydebank. These details come from the original document given to me by my great aunt, and it is this that got me started on all of this!! (long before the advent of computer technology i must add)!! What i would really love to know now is whether Mary had any brothers and sisters. Thanks for looking so far.

[Mary Young]

1873 - 7 Queen Street, Govan. 1893 - Robert Donaldson- 7 Victoria Place, Clydebank and Mary Boag - 16 Clydebank Terrace, Clydebank. Well you are a tease :)
1881 - No sign of Donaldson, Boag/Bogue/Bogie/Bog (etc.) or Halliday at Queen Street, Victoria Place or adjoining streets. Aaargh! NB Dozens if not hundreds of people (mainly Irish) living at each number in these streets, obviously large tenements.
I could look for Robert Donaldson - do you have his dob and parents' names? It would be nice to find someone !

[lizziebeth]

Hello again Mary, sorry to be causing you such frustration! I can tell you that Robert who was my GT Grandfather was a twin, and they were born on 5.5.1873, his twin brother was called Alexander. They had an elder sister Mary, and their parents were John and Euphemia (nee cruickshank). I have quite a bit of information relating to John Alexander and Euphemia, and from Robert down to my grandfather etc, but as you may have guessed i am struggling a bit with the Boag connection! It would also be nice to find out what happened to Roberts twin, Alexander and their sister Mary. I really appreciate everything you are doing, and feel that i have nothing to offer in return, apart from my grateful thanks.Not that it makes any difference, but i have a photograph of Robert and "Sandy" as Alexander was apparently known, and they were identical!!

[Mary Young]

Robert Donaldson, my GT Grandfather had a twin, Alexander, and they were born on 5.5.1873. They had an elder sister Mary, and their parents were John and Euphemia (nee Cruickshank). Well that was eesy beesy (but you probably have the info. already!).
The Donaldsons were in North Leith in 1881.
24 Prince Regent St. North Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
(FHL Film 0224017, GRO Ref Volume 692-1. EnumDist 23, Page 34
John DONALDSON, head, married, 33 (born St Andrews, Fife)
Occ: Blacksmith
Euphemia DONALDSON, wife,44 (St Andrews)
Mary E. DONALDSON, daur, 9 (Granton, Edinburgh)
Robert DONALDSON, son, 7 (Granton)
Alexander DONALDSON, son, 7 (Granton)
John LESLIE, married lodger, 30 (Kirkcaldy, Fife)
Occ: Boiler Plater
James MUIR, unmarried lodger, 25 (Lochgelly, Fife)
Occ: Angle Iron Smith
Henry MUIR, unmarried lodger, 16 (Brit Subj, born America),
Occ: Printer Compositer
-----
I wonder if the entire family moved to Glasgow before Robert jr married Mary Boag?

[lizziebeth]

Well that was eesy beesy (but you probably have the info. already!).
The Donaldsons were in North Leith in 1881.
24 Prince Regent St. North Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
(FHL Film 0224017, GRO Ref Volume 692-1. EnumDist 23, Page 34
John DONALDSON, head, married, 33 (born St Andrews, Fife)
Occ: Blacksmith
Euphemia DONALDSON, wife,44 (St Andrews)
Mary E. DONALDSON, daur, 9 (Granton, Edinburgh)
Robert DONALDSON, son, 7 (Granton)
Alexander DONALDSON, son, 7 (Granton)
John LESLIE, married lodger, 30 (Kirkcaldy, Fife)
Occ: Boiler Plater
James MUIR, unmarried lodger, 25 (Lochgelly, Fife)
Occ: Angle Iron Smith
Henry MUIR, unmarried lodger, 16 (Brit Subj, born America),
Occ: Printer Compositer
-----
I wonder if the entire family moved to Glasgow before Robert jr married Mary Boag?
Hello Mary,
Thanks for the information, which is more or less what i had. I think my ancestors had very itchy feet, John Alexander was the youngest of eleven, and they were born all over Fife!! I think his father was a travelling workman of some sort (did they call it journeyman?) Did i already say that Robert and Mary (Boag) married in 1893 in Old Kilpatrick? Would you (if you have not already) be able to have a look on the 1891 census to see if that sheds any light on it? Maybe Robert and Mary eloped! Then they might have omitted to put themselves down. Who knows!!

[Mary Young]

Hello Mary,
I think my ancestors had very itchy feet, John Alexander's father was a travelling workman of some sort (did they call it journeyman?)
A "journeyman" didn't necessarily travel about! It means "One who has fully served an apprenticeship in a trade or craft and is a qualified worker in another's employ" (derived from journei, a day's work).
So he was paid by the day. But would perhaps move from one employer to another for better wages. He would be described as "journeyman tailor" or "journeyman joiner" etc.


Would you be able to have a look on the 1891 census to see if that sheds any light on it? They would both still be single in 1891. Alas, no, I haven't looked at the 1891 - that census, and the 1901 are available only in person at Register House or one of the LDS Centres, on on-line at scotlandspeople (a pay-per-view site). I wouldn't recommend looking for Robert Donaldson on-line unless you are desperate, the name is common and you might spend a lot before finding him. :)

[lizziebeth]

Hello Mary,
Many thanks for all your efforts in helping sort out my ancestry. I appreciate all your efforts, and i will continue searching. If and when i find anything exciting, I will be sure to let you know!
Thanks Lizziebeth

[Helen Morton]

Perhaps you can help me? I am looking for ancestors/ relies of James Muir born in Largo, Fife, 1835 and also THOMAS GRIEVE MUIR born LOCHGELLY, fife in 1875... Is your James Muir my James Muir or perhaps a brother of my Thomas Grieve Muir? Is it possible?
helen

[Helen Morton]

Well that was eesy beesy (but you probably have the info. already!).
The Donaldsons were in North Leith in 1881.
24 Prince Regent St. North Leith, Edinburgh, Scotland
(FHL Film 0224017, GRO Ref Volume 692-1. EnumDist 23, Page 34
John DONALDSON, head, married, 33 (born St Andrews, Fife)
Occ: Blacksmith
Euphemia DONALDSON, wife,44 (St Andrews)
Mary E. DONALDSON, daur, 9 (Granton, Edinburgh)
Robert DONALDSON, son, 7 (Granton)
Alexander DONALDSON, son, 7 (Granton)
John LESLIE, married lodger, 30 (Kirkcaldy, Fife)
Occ: Boiler Plater
James MUIR, unmarried lodger, 25 (Lochgelly, Fife)
Occ: Angle Iron Smith
Henry MUIR, unmarried lodger, 16 (Brit Subj, born America),
Occ: Printer Compositer
-----
I wonder if the entire family moved to Glasgow before Robert jr married Mary Boag?

G'day,
I was searching for 'Muir' and came across this thread, is it called a thread? Anyway, my James Muir was b in Largo, Fife in 1835 and had a son Thomas Grieve Muir b in LOCHGELLY, fife in 1875... is your James Muir my James Muir or possibly a brother of my Thomas Muir? Is it possible. Any help would be great...
from Helen

[lizziebeth]

Hello Helen, Have responded with a PM (to your PM)

Mary, if you happen to read this, a quick update!! On the 1881 census I seem to have found a family by the name of "Bayne" who fit, , right christian names etc, also a death for Helen Boag in 1901 Old Kilpatrick, Dunbarton 501/000242.
I guess the surname can be mistranscribed, or maybe just not very clear.
I searched for ages for a Cruickshank with no success, until one day i misspelt it as "Cruishank", lo, and behold, there he was!!!!

[Mary Young]

Mary ... On the 1881 census I seem to have found a family by the name of "Bayne" who fit, right christian names etc.OOh, you are clever! :) Wish I'd thought of that. Looks good, names and ages OK, plus a nephew, interesting. At first I wondered why they were living in a "Tent" then realised it was a Tenement.
Keep up the good work.

[lizziebeth]

I have to confess to a bit of help on that one!!! Cannot take all the credit. I must admit the tent thing worried me a bit too!!
The only??? puzzle i now have is that i think Mary (daughter) had a brother who went to the USA, but i have no first name, in fact the only real clue i have is an original letter written, i believe in 1875 to Mrs Bogue saying that "He had bought a lot of houses and was living in one of them(31 brunswick street, Jersey City)". So, we solve one piece of the puzzle, only to find another one!

[Mary Young]

Mary (daughter) had a brother who went to the USA, ... only real clue i have is an original letter written, i believe in 1875 ... saying that "He had bought a lot of houses .." Something adrift here. :confused: Mary's parents married ?1871, she was born 1873, no way her brother was buying houses in 1875. Is the date wrong - or someone slipped a generation?

[lizziebeth]

Ah, Mary, what would i do without you!! You are quite right, and the dates do not connect. Have had another look at the letter, and considering how old it is, it is in quite a readable condition, and i am pretty certain that the date is 1875. I suppose it is quite possible that it could actually be addressed to Mrs Bogue, as in John Bogues mother, it is conceivable that he had a sister Mary too, and i was just putting two and two together....

[Mary Young]

Have had another look at the letter, and considering how old it is, it is in quite a readable condition, and i am pretty certain that the date is 1875. I suppose it is quite possible that it could actually be addressed to Mrs Bogue, as in John Bogues mother Hmm ... interesting ... Assuming the letter came down via John Bogue / Mary etc... If not addressed to Helen Boag, how did it come into their hands? Have you traced John Bogue's mother? Was she in Ireland, or came over to Scotland to join the family?
Questions, questions ... we've come a long way from french polishers. |biggrin|

[Teressa]

Boy do I ever hope you still come to this forum.
My Great Grandma was Eleanor Donaldson and she married Walter Stuart Keith White.

They had 2 children, Mary Sybil White, and Doris Keith White.

I have a bit more history, but I would really love to know you are still here as well...

Effie is burried in the USA
Eleanor, Gertrude, Molly and Louise are burried in Ontario Canada.

If the info I have is correct, Your Grandfather married Betsy Jane Askew and they had 4 Sons

Robert matthew married joyce anstis
John married joyce Dipson
William Bruce married Mavis Swift
Donald Alexander married Patricia King

Please write so I know you are still here. I'd really love to talk to you about our family.

[Mary Young]

Robert and Mary (Boag) married in 1893 in Old Kilpatrick. Would you (if you have not already) be able to have a look on the 1891 census to see if that sheds any light on it?
How are you progressing with your search? You were correct, by 1891 the Donaldsons had moved to Old Kilpatrick - but I can't find Mary Boag/Bogue/Bayne or her parents!!
The A******y index shows.
1891
6 Kilbowie Road, Old Kilpatrick, Clydebank, Dunbartonshire.
John DONALDSON head, blacksmith 45 St Andrews, Fifeshire
Euphemia DONALDSON wife 50 St Andrews
Mary DONALDSON daur. machinist 19 Granton, Edinburghshire
Robert DONALDSON son apprentice brassfinisher 17 Granton
Alexander DONALDSON son apprentice iron turner 17 Granton

[lizziebeth]

How are you progressing with your search? You were correct, by 1891 the Donaldsons had moved to Old Kilpatrick - but I can't find Mary Boag/Bogue/Bayne or her parents!!
The A******y index shows.
1891
6 Kilbowie Road, Old Kilpatrick, Clydebank, Dunbartonshire.
John DONALDSON head, blacksmith 45 St Andrews, Fifeshire
Euphemia DONALDSON wife 50 St Andrews
Mary DONALDSON daur. machinist 19 Granton, Edinburghshire
Robert DONALDSON son apprentice brassfinisher 17 Granton
Alexander DONALDSON son apprentice iron turner 17 Granton

Hello Mary,
Many thanks for the information, it fills in a few gaps, progress on the Boag/Bogue/Bayne is not going far, Mary's parents must have moved to Scotland from Ireland between 1871 when they married in Belfast, and 1873 when Mary was born, but thats about all I have.

[Teressa]

Robert Donaldson, born Scotland
Burried St Johns Norway Cemetary Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Married Mary Boag Born Ireland.
Died 1951 Burried St Johns Norway Cemetary Toronto, Ontario, Canada


they had 6 children :

1) 1. Effie scotland Married John Brander or Brandon
1 daughter named Jean who married Calvin Larsond

Burried Bridgeport cemetary USA

2) John Alexander Donaldson Born Scotland married Betsy Jane Askew died 1961 in England
They had 4 SONS -
Robert matthew married Joyce Anstis
John married Joyce Dixson
William Bruce married Mavis Swift
Donald Alexander married Patricia King

3) Eleanor Born in Scotland married Walter Stuart Keith White
Walter died 1965 Ella died 1971 both buried at St John Norway Cemetary Toronto, Ontario, Canada

They had 2 children :

A) Mary Sybil White who married John Frederick Mines
They had 9 children:

Jerry married Marilyn and had 6 kids ( I think only 6) named Charlena, Stewart, Susie, Cindy, Lori, Sherra
Terry Eleanor had 1 child named Frederick Erwin Mines then Married Clifford Steven Bignell and had 2 kids names
Clifford Leslie Bignell and Teressa Jean Marie Bignell
Merry Married Brian Sprague had 4 kids Jerry, Gerry, Carla, Brian
Perry married Bonnie had 2 kids Heather and Daniel
Clary (known as Fatso) had 4 kids Mary, Ellie, John & ?
Kerry (Known as Joe) has 1 daughter that I know of
Larry Married Diane had 1 daughter named Heather
Harry - single
Gerry Married Darlene, had 4 kids Mikey, Lory, Stephanie, Kayla then divorced and Married Karen Surkos and had
2 kids Deeanna & Daniel.

B) Doris Keith White Married Douglas Robert Pamplin
They had 2 kids:
Robert Keith married Marilyn Parission
Karen Janet married Constantino (Dino) Pikilaf

4) Mary (Molly) married Robert Carle
Robert died 1965 buried in Tillsonburg Ontario , Canada
3 kids :
Jean married Lionel
George Married Kay
Martha married Keith Richardson

5) Gert born in Scotland Married Frederick Syme
They had 1 kid named Robert married Noella
Gert cremated and buried in parents plot in St Johns Norway Cemetary Toronto, Ontario, Canada

6) Louise born Scotland married Jack Wilson 1899 Lou died in Tilsonburg Ontario, Canada.

They had 1 child Donald who married Jane


This is some of the information my mom (Terry Eleanor Mines) and I have been able to piece together. I have a picture of I believe Mary Donaldson (nee Boag), Ella White (nee Donaldson), Mary Sybil Mines (nee White), Terry (my mother) & Jerry Mines (my Uncle) taken in Toronto in 1950. I have a few others as well and my Mom is going to look for more. Will scan the few pics I do have and put them in within the next couple of days.

[Teressa74]

I am wondering if you are still here. This is going back several years and I have no idea if you had even read the info I posted about our family.

[Mary Young]

I am wondering if you are still here. This is going back several years and I have no idea if you had even read the info I posted about our family.
Teressa, I contributed to that thread, but merely trying to help Lizziebeth, who started the thread. I hope you are able to make contact. Best wishes for your search.

[christanel]

Thank you Mary for responding to Teressa's post.
Teressa, Lizziebeth was on the forums in the middle of last year. If she is still using the email address as when she posted then she should receive notification of your posts.
You can also try contacting her by private message (pm). To do this click on her user avatar and from the drop down menu click on Private message. This also depends on her still having the same email address as when she joined up.
Christina

[Teressa74]

thank you Mary and Christanel for responding, I can not remember my old sign in info as well, so had to make a new account. I will try pming her and see if she responds that way. :)