Harris - St Columb 1861 & 1871 Census

[Alan Nancarrow]

Hi All,

I wonder if some kind person with access to original images of at least the 1871 census could confirm the details I located on Family History Online, particularly the age of the parents and last child James.

In the 1861 census John Harris was aged 23 and wife Jane 24. In 1871 John had advanced to 41 and Jane 35 (which would be right).

I have been unable to locate the birth of a son James in 1870. Beginning to think I have the wrong family. If it is the right family, then there was a son Zenas James born in 1867 which would make him 4 at census time. Further, if this is the right family, then wife Jane dies before June 1874 and John marries Johanna on 11 June 1874. The only Jane Harris death I can locate for St Columb between the census and re-marriage dates is in the Dec Qtr of 1873 and she is aged 48 which does not seem to fit.

Further clouding the issue is the info that John (rightly aged 43) and Johanna have moved to St. Dennis and are listed with Zenas (aged 11) and William J. (aged 4) and his occupation has changed from lead miner to Prudential Insurance Agent.

Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.

Regards, Alan

[Procat]

Hi Alan,

1871 census

Civil Parish or Township: Newlyn
Town: Mitchell
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Source information: RG10/2257
Registration district: St Columb
Sub-registration district: Newlyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Folio: 46
Page: 21
Household schedule number: 90

Mitchell

John Harris Head Married Age 41(possiblyas struck through heavily) Lead Miner Born St. Allen Cornwall
Jane Harris Wife Married Age 35 Lead Miner Wife Born St Newlyn Cornwall
Ellen Harris Daughter Age 12 Scholar Born St Newlyn Cornwall
Elizabeth A Harris Daughter Age 10 Scholar Born St Newlyn Cornwall
Richard Harris Son Age 9 Scholar Born St Newlyn Cornwall
Anne Harris Daughter Age 3 Born St Newlyn Cornwall
James Harris Son Age 1 Born St Newlyn Cornwall

[Procat]

1861 census

Civil parish: Newlyn
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Source information: RG9/1544
Registration district: St Columb
Sub-registration district: Newlyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Folio: 34
Page: 1
Household schedule number: 5

Mitchell

John Harris Head Married Age 23 Lead Miner Born St Columb Cornwall
Jane Harris Wife Married Age 24 Born Newlyn Cornwall
Ellen Harris Daughter Age 3 Scholar Born Newlyn Cornwall
Elizabeth A Harris Daughter Age 7 Months Born Newlyn Cornwall

[Scottie]

Further clouding the issue is the info that John (rightly aged 43) and Johanna have moved to St. Dennis and are listed with Zenas (aged 11) and William J. (aged 4) and his occupation has changed from lead miner to Prudential Insurance Agent.

Regards, Alan
Hello Alan,
The John Harris married to Johanna is the son of Samuel Harris & Elizabeth Wilton married 21 Apr 1821. He was christened 28 jan 1827 in St Columb Major being born at Trevarren. In 1841 he was at Victoria Row, St Just as a 14 year old miner and in 1861 at Redruth still a Miner with 6 children born St Agnes, Newquay, Callington & Redruth. Johanna was born 1828 in Crantock and is with him in 1861 at Redruth. See part 2 for the other John.:D

[Scottie]

Hello Alan,
See part 2 for the other John.:D
John Harris aged 23 in 1861 was the son of John Harris & Jane Trebilcock married 22 Feb 1834 in St Columb Major. He was christened on 25 dec 1836 in St Columb Major and said to be "of St Allen". He married Jane born 1837 in Newlyn East as far as I know.

[Procat]

And following on from Scotties answer:

1871 census

Civil Parish or Township: Gwennap
Ecclesiastical parish: St Day
Town: Treskerby
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Source information: RG10/2311
Registration district: Redruth
Sub-registration district: Gwennap
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Folio: 17
Page: 9
Household schedule number: 51

Treskerby

Jn Harris Head Married Age 44 Farmer Born St Columb Cornwall
J Harris Wife Married Age 43 Born Cranyock Cornwall
M J Harris Daughter Unmarried Age 21 Born Newquay Cornwall
T Harris Son Unmarried Age 19 Miner Born Saltash Cornwall
A Harris Daughter Age 13 Born Gwenap Cornwall
Wm Harris Son Age Age 12 Born Gwennap Cornwall
R Harris Son Age 9 Born Gwennap Cornwall
B Harris Daughter Age 7 Born Gwennap Cornwall
M Harris Daughter Age 3 Born Redruth Cornwall

[Procat]

1861 census

Civil parish: Redruth
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Source information: RG9/1580
Registration district: Redruth
Sub-registration district: Redruth
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Folio: 37
Page: 14
Household schedule number: 72

Cuckold Moor

John Harris Head Married Age 34 Copper Miner Born St Columb Cornwall
Johanna Harris Wife Married Age 33 Miners Wife Born Crantock Cornwall
John H Harris Son Age 14 Mine Boy Born St Agnes Cornwall
Mary J Harris Daughter Age 10 Assist her mother Born Newquay Cornwall
Thomas Harris Son Age 9 Born Callington Cornwall
Edwin Harris Son Age 7 Scholar Born Callington Cornwall
Anna M Harris Daughter Age 3 Born Redruth Cornwall
William Harris Son Age 1 Born Redruth Cornwall

[Scottie]

Hello Alan,
The John Harris married to Johanna is the son of Samuel Harris & Elizabeth Wilton married 21 Apr 1821. He was christened 28 jan 1827 in St Columb Major being born at Trevarren. In 1841 he was at Victoria Row, St Just as a 14 year old miner and in 1861 at Redruth still a Miner with 6 children born St Agnes, Newquay, Callington & Redruth. Johanna was born 1828 in Crantock and is with him in 1861 at Redruth.
Further thoughts when I saw your John in Newlyn East with a Joanna in 1881. His age seems to fluctuate a lot in the censuses though!! His first wife Jane died in Newlyn East, aged 38. So the John Harris above is a red herring and yours is the son of John & Jane Trebilcock married 22 Feb 1834 in St Columb Minor and in St Allen when your John was born. If you want it I can give you one more generation back as well :)

[Scottie]

So the John Harris above is a red herring and yours is the son of John & Jane Trebilcock married 22 Feb 1834 in St Columb Minor and in St Allen when your John was born. If you want it I can give you one more generation back as well :)
:o But wait a minute....in 1851 there is a John Harris aged 16 in Newlyn East and he was born in St Columb Minor to Hugh Harris born 1796 Redruth and Ann Cocking born 1798 Crantock married 18 Mar 1833 in Crantock and he has brothers Hugh 1836 St Columb Minor and William 1840 Newlyn East. Hugh Senior and John and Hugh are all Lead Miners. Is this your John? Gets more confusing every minute as I have not found John Harris and Jane Trebilcock's John in 1851 yet!!

[Alan Nancarrow]

Hi Scottie and Procat,

Sorry, I seem to have led you into a quagmire of confusion. I should have laid more info than I did, but didn't want to go overboard.

The John Harris I am seeking married Johanna Argall (nee Nancarrow) on 11 June 1874. According to the marriage certificate John (age 37) was described as 'widower' and Johanna (age 39) as 'widow' (although there is a notation to the effect that she was deserted by her husband 10 ten before). Both were shown as resident in St Newlyn. John's profession given as miner and his father's name also John with a profession of Husbandman. John and Johanna had a son William John on 28 Sep 1876. It was through the 1881 Census I learned that John had at least one child from his first marriage, Zenas born 4 Jan 1867 at Mitchell, Newlyn, mother Jane Morcomb.
John died 1 May 1883 aged 46 at Hendra Downs, St Dennis. The informant is described as 'Mary Ann Harris, Daughter in Law'.

I felt the family at Mitchell in 1861 & 1871 census' was the right family except that John's age of 41 and youngest child James age 1 throws a spanner in the works. The Jane Harris burial at Mitchell at 38 in 1873 is probably the right one.

If last child James is aged 1 in 1871, and Zenas is aged 11 in 1881 Census. Zenas's death certificate gives his name as Zenas James while his birth certificate only gives Zenas. His birth date is 4 Jan 1867, which would make him 4 in 1871 not 1. John's age should have been 34(perhaps the 3 is too faint to make out?) So . . . who filled out the census papers? householders or census collectors and who decided how old people were? Surely a 4 year old looks a little bigger than a 1 year old? Ahhhhh mysteries within mysteries.

Thanks very much to both of you for your time and endeavours.

Regards, Alan

[Scottie]

Alan if you contact Ian Argall he will fill you in on the Argall marriage I should think. Thank you Procat for saving me the lookups to fill my gaps :-))

[Alan Nancarrow]

Thanks, Scottie. I have already had contact with Ian and the Argall marriage saga has been sorted. I was mainly interested in tidying up the picture around John Harris, which seems to have happened.

Regards, Alan