View Full Version : need 1861 census original image lookup
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 1:11 AM
I have a transcription for a family at Harpford (in Ottery St Mary district) in 1861 census from freeBMD. However one of the names does not look right to me, and I was hoping that someone could eyeball the original for me.
Heres the transcription.
1861 census Harpford - Ottery St MAry
Piece: RG9/1379 Folio: 7 Page: 9 Schedule: 51
SMERDON Herman 40 Farmer Devon Otterton
SMERDON Mary 35 Devon - Harpford
SMERDON John 15 Devon - Harpford
SMERDON James 11 Devon - Aylesbeare
SMERDON Eliza 10 Devon - Harpford
SMITH Aliane Wifdau 8 London - London
SMERDON Basrame 5 Devon - Ottery St Mary
SMERDON Georgianna 3 Devon - Ottery St Mary
SMERDON Stephen 2 Devon - Ottery St Mary
SMERDON Alfred 4m
%0 35 Devon - Harpford
SMERDON John 15 Devon - Harpford
SMERDON James 11 Devon - Aylesbeare
SMERDON Eliza 10 Devon - Harpford
SMITH Aliane Wifdau 8 London - London
SMERDON Basrame 5 Devon - Ottery St Mary
SMERDON Georgianna 3 Devon - Ottery St Mary
SMERDON Stephen 2 Devon - Ottery St Mary
SMERDON Alfred 4m
The person in question is BASRAME the 5 year old.
My information says her name was Rose or ROSINA . Can anyone tell me it really was Basrame, or could it be Rosina?
Thanks
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 1:25 AM
Hello Burrow Digger
I could be your sweetie ! Have you looked at the original ? i can send it
On Ancestrys translation it says Bassame
Mythology
21-08-2005, 1:34 AM
Give or take a letter it's correctly transcribed.
Could *possibly* be Bassame rather than Basrame, but I wouldn't argue with the transcriber over it - certainly nothing like Rosina.
Edit:
I see that Tracey's come to the same conclusion while I've been typing, so Rosina is two-nil down so far.
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 1:37 AM
I wonder if it could be a huge blip in the name - as there are many on the census as well as the translation of birth places - but the more i look at it the more i see Rosanna !
Or it maybe time for my bed !!
Mythology
21-08-2005, 1:53 AM
If what you mean is that the enumerator may have got it completely wrong because he couldn't read the householder's return, yes, I agree with you.
As far as the entry as written by the enumerator is concerned though, it is clearly either Basrame or Bassame, so I wouldn't argue with either the FreeReg transcriber or the Ancestry transcriber.
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 1:59 AM
In my early stages of looking for my family i found a census on freecen that had got my gt gt gt grandfathers age wrong so i mailed the transcriber !! did she tell me off ! she said it wasnt her job to re write history !!
Also for one of my lot i found her birth place as Barriff when it clearly ( to me anyway ) said Banff but the corrections link on 1901 census was so long winded i gave up. I have learnt since not to interfer !
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 2:05 AM
Ok then well I guess the majority vote wins and I have to accept that the name is Bassame/BAsrame - so I will need to look elsewhere to find my Rose.
Thanks everyone :)
BD
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 2:09 AM
One more post Burrow Digger and you will be a Senior Member like i have just become !! I hit the 100 mark at it appeared !!
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 2:13 AM
Next question - How do I connect Rose in 1881 census (below) with the info from 1861 that I posted above? Any suggestions?
1881 census - Ottery St Mary
Herman SMERDON Head M Male 58 Ottery St Mary Farmer
Mary SMERDON Wife M Female 54 Ottery St Mary Farmer Wife
Rose CALLOW Daur W Female 25 Ottery St Mary Servant Dom
Richard SMERDON Son Male 12 Ottery St Mary Scholar
Charles SMERDON Son Male 10 Ottery St Mary Scholar
Lilly CALLOW Gr Daur Female 3 Ottery St Mary Scholar
Ann PERRY Sister W Female 66 Harpford
Mary PERRY Niece U Female 20 Harpford Servant (Dom)
RG11 Piece 2134 / Folio 42 Page 3
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 2:14 AM
More background info - and another post so I can get the magic number!! LOL :)
Rose did marry John Callow and had a daughter Lily. John died and in 1881 Rose was a widow living with her parents. In 1885 she married my relative George Rowe, which is why I am interested in her family. :)
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 2:17 AM
MMM why am I still green? Do I have to log out and back in??
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 2:21 AM
I think you chose that colour dot (or it is a default colour) when you joined i chose a red one and have been trying to change it so its not personal !!
But you are A SENIOR MEMBER NOW MUSLETOFF !!
Mythology
21-08-2005, 2:29 AM
Don't write her off that easily. I don't know whether Canada followed the USA practice of taking down information verbally or not, but if that's what you're familiar with, do bear in mind that over here the system was that forms were distributed which the householder filled in. These were then collected and the enumerator wrote up the book from them. The vast majority of the population had writing which the average doctor would be proud of when writing out his illegible prescriptions, so apparently ridiculous mistakes are quite common, and it is no use relying on just one census return.
In 1871, what appears to be the same family are:
Herman 46
Mary 44
Rosina 15
Georgina 13
Steve 12 (allegedly a daughter on this one!)
Alfred 8 (so unless the one on the 1861 fell over and he's a replacement, somebody couldn't add up)
Bess 7
[Sarl?] 5
Richard 3
Charles 2
I wouldn't put money on Sarl - that's what it looks like to me, and this one is allegedly a son (not that that's necessarily true if Stephen/Steve is anything to go by) so I'd *guess* he's probably a badly written Saul, but don't bank on it.
Now - somehow, especially with an unusual name like Herman Smerdon, I do not think that there were two almost identical families in a tinpot place like Harpford, one of whom had a daughter called Basrame and a son called Stephen, while the other had a daughter called Rosina and a daughter called Steve, do you?
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 2:32 AM
Do you think that Basseme (?) is Robina on 1971 census ? or do i really need some sleep ! as its the same birth year
Alfred Smerdon abt 1863 Harpford, Devon, England Son Harpford Devon
Bess Smerdon abt 1864 Harpford, Devon, England Daughter Harpford Devon
Charles Smerdon abt 1869 Harpford, Devon, England Son Harpford Devon
Georgina Smerdon abt 1858 Harpford, Devon, England Daughter Harpford Devon
Herman Smerdon abt 1825 Otterton, Devon, England Head Harpford Devon
Mary Smerdon abt 1827 Harpford, Devon, England Wife Harpford Devon
Richard Smerdon abt 1868 Harpford, Devon, England Son Harpford Devon
Robina Smerdon abt 1856 Harpford, Devon, England Daughter Harpford Devon
Sarl Smerdon abt 1866 Harpford, Devon, England Son Harpford Devon
Steve Smerdon abt 1859 Harpford, Devon, England Daughter Harpford Devon
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 2:36 AM
Sorry Mythology i am not geting any mails telling me there have been any replies to this thread
Chasing Caseys
21-08-2005, 2:44 AM
According to freebmd a Rosina Smerdon married John Callow
Dec 1876 vol 5b page 43
The district Honiton is in the county of Devon
Mythology
21-08-2005, 2:48 AM
Don't apologise! Personally I look at the forum rather than my mail, but there is, in any case, only three minutes between my post and yours, so I doubt if a notification would have got to you in time anyway.
Burrow Digger, before you ask ....
Tracey's given you the Ancestry transcription, I'm looking at the page.
It is very definitely Rosina in 1871, not Robina - unlike the Basrame/Bassame question, that one I *would* argue with the transcriber over!
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 2:54 AM
Myth
I need to check my Archive CD for the 1871 census-
can you me give a page/folio number? Thanks :)
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 2:57 AM
Heres Rosina's second marriage in 1885
Marriages Dec 1885
Boundy Louisa Honiton 5b 45
CALLOW Rosina Honiton 5b 45
Rowe George Honiton 5b 45
Smerdon John Honiton 5b 45
Havent got around to checking how John is related to her - but he probably is.
BD
Mythology
21-08-2005, 3:00 AM
Of course! If I was awake properly (it's 2.45 a.m. here) I'd have done that in the first place - sorry!
RG10/2042, folio 53, page 9
Cheers.
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 3:03 AM
Its 9.45 pm here :)
thanks Myth - now go to bed.
Oh and here in Canada the census is done by forms - at least the least census I filled out back in 2001 was done by filling out forms. Same for New Zealand (my country of birth)
I'm gonna accept that Basrame was just VERY BAD WRITING and that she was Rosina since the age is consistent all the way through :)
Burrow Digger
21-08-2005, 4:11 AM
That was lovely clear writing. Rosina she definitely is in 1871 - age 15 and a lacemaker.
I'm thinking that either Steve should have been a boy - or Steve is short for Stephanie :)
Time for bed over here now as well.
Coming up to 11pm - thats 4 am in UK I beleive.
G'nite & thanks for your help.
BD
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.