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shume
04-11-2013, 8:58 AM
I believe this photo was taken in Ireland between 1870 and 1880. The young woman facing the camera was born 1852. I don't know who the man is, or the older woman who is not looking at the camera. It seems like a casual photograph rather than a formal occasion. The man looks rather dapper and may not be the young woman's future husband who was a well known surgeon.
Any suggestions very welcome please.
http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/extensions/uploads/d155466a-110c-4f74-be00-36c65fa628b5.jpg

thewideeyedowl
04-11-2013, 9:50 AM
Hi Shume

What a lovely photograph - I've been zooming in to it to try to make out the clues. First, I think you are broadly right - it is from some time in the 1870s, possibly mid-decade. These are the clues:

- the tilted forward hats (postillion-style), ornamented with flowers
- ornamentation (scarf?) at the neck of the younger woman
- the widening of the lapels on the man's jacket.
- the man's bowler hat, which seems to have quite a tall crown

The man's facial hair isn't giving much of a clue. (Has he got a moustache?) Beards came 'in' in the 1860s and differing styles developed. But some men were resolutely clean-shaven. beards went out of fashion in WW1. (I have one fully-bearded great-grandfather, and one who was clean-shaven - both born mid-1800s.)

Is there any info on the back of the photo? It can be possible to narrow the date range if you know the provenance of the photo by checking the photographic studio. (There are lots of websites to help with this.)

It looks as if the photo has been taken out of a frame. Can you identify what the photograph was printed on??

I have taken the above bits and pieces of info from Jayne Shrimpton's book 'How To Get The Most From Family Pictures'. She is a photo-dating and fashion expert - blogs on FMP and contributes to magazines. You can also find her website quite easily, but I cannot give a direct link here.

Finally, have just chanced upon this blog about old Irish
photographshttp://jacolette.wordpress.com/, which looks quite interesting.

I do hope you will be able to date it and also discover the names of the unknown members of the little group.

Must fly off now

The Wideeyed Owl

shume
04-11-2013, 10:19 PM
Thank you for your help: Would you be able to estimate the age of the young man and the older woman? Is he late 20's and is she 50 + ?
At this stage I have no further info as to its provenance but am working on that at the moment.
Many thanks

thewideeyedowl
04-11-2013, 11:14 PM
These are guesses, really, but here goes:

Young woman: about 18
Older woman: in her forties
Man: thirty-ish

It's a pity that we can't see the dresses properly but I've got a feeling this photo might be nearer 1870 than 1875 - the dresses perhaps more '60s than '70s(?). But the chap is much more 1870s - the bowler hat, wider lapels and jacket buttoned mid-chest.

If we said 1870, and you know the girl was born in 1852, then the woman would have been born c1825 and the man c1840. But it is open to discussion!

Have you got anyone who might fit those tentative dates?

It's late here, so I'm off to roost.

Wideeyed Owl

shume
05-11-2013, 1:10 AM
Ok.. if we know the young woman was born in 1852 (her mother died childbirth) the next theory is that the older woman is the girl's older sister born 1843. Then perhaps the man is someone born 1851 who married the older sister in 1876. This man was a "commercial salesman".. he looks a bit like one! Perhaps the photo was taken for their elder brother who left Ireland for Australia in 1871 as a keepsake? I don't think the man is the young girl's fiancee (he was a surgeon) and her brother was a school master ex Trinity College.
Any thoughts? I haven't anyone else who fits the dates you suggested.

thewideeyedowl
05-11-2013, 8:24 AM
Just a quickie...

You might need to widen the net. What about this scenario: the man is the girl's suitor (he is standing behind her, hand on seat rail, looking straight at the camera). The woman is the chaperone. The relationship between the man and the girl is not allowed to proceed, possibly because of the age gap and the family might have perceived him to be a 'cad and a bounder' from central casting(!). When the relationship was ended, the photo was taken out of its frame.

What were the circumstances in which the girl was brought up - in a relative's family, perhaps, or did the father marry again? Might the woman have been an older cousin?

Must go to work.

Wideeyed Owl