McCafferty

[sandyjose]

My great gran was Anna McCafferty,she was born in 1856 to Robert McCafferty and Esther Hollinger in Co Down. In 1873 she had a son,William James,in 1875 a daughter Easter and in 1876 a daughter Mary.In 1877 she married the father of the children,Thomas Gunning.By 1881 they were living in Glasgow but Easter wasn't with them.She probably died but where? I can't find a record of it in Irish records or in Scottish ones.I've even thought that maybe she wasn't Thomas' and she was sent to live with someone or she was adopted.because he wouldn't support her.
Thomas was living in Glasgow,he was a bootmaker,but he kept going backwards and forwards to New Zealand where his brother James had gone to live with his wife.It could even be that Thomas was there all the time but his wife included him on the census here to keep up appearences.In1902 he married again,I think he forgot to get a divorce or thought he was far enough away that it didn't matter!!!
I know the rest of Thomas' life so that's not an issue.Anna(Annie) however is a mystery,She was on the 1911 census for Co Down,living in Newtownards alone,her 1st name is mis spelt but it's her,both her children William James and Mary were in Glasgow so it would be logical that she'd go there to be near her grandchildren.That doesn't seem to be the case because in 1920 her son William James died and his widow had to go to the parrish for help,in the application it says the both her husbands parents were thought to be in New Zealand.So where did Anna go and where did she die?Sorry to be so long winded but in the past people have given me info that I already have so the only way is to explain everything and what I don't have.

[Lesley Robertson]

How flexible have you been with the spelling of names in your searches? If you imagine someone with an irish accent giving information to a clerk accustomed to the Glasgow accent, all sorts of errors could creep in. Easter/Esther for a start. Gunning/Cumming, etc, etc.

[sandyjose]

Hi,Many thanks for your advice,I hadn't thought of trying different spellings and I should have,because on Anna's marriage entry it has her down as McCaffirty,because she couldn't read she would not have questioned what was put on the lines.As far as the child's name goes,I had thought that maybe it was wrong but it seems that Easter was a name that was used in Ireland.Howver Anna's mother's name was Esther and as names were repeated in families,was it that it was mis-spelt in registration or did she intend a deviation of her mother's name?I wiil try spelling of similar names,as you have suggested and see what I come up with.It could be Ireland or Scotland as I don't know the exact year the family came to Glasgow.
Thanks,once again ,for giving me other avenues to explore

[Elwyn Soutter]

Births, deaths & marriages in Northern Ireland from 1.1.1922 onwards are not on-line anywhere. So if Annie died after that date you won’t find the records on familysearch or any of the other on-line sources. Instead you need to contact GRONI in Belfast and ask them to look for it for you (for a fee).

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/gro

You say that Easter (Esther) was born in 1875. However what looks to be her birth was registered in 1874 (Newtownards 1874, Vol 16, page 799). I can't see a death listed in Ireland for her under either M'Cafferty or Gunning.

[sandyjose]

Many thanks again for suggestions,I will try using different spellings,on Scotland's People you can find deaths up to quite recently but you can't see the record unless it's more than 75 years ago.I've tried them,they don't have anything for Anna(Annie)I didn't try Easter so I will do.Does anyone know if churches kept funeral records?If the child wasn't given a funeral as such there would have been a minister at a graveside ceremony.I know that William James was christened at Greenwell St Church with the name McCafferty,no father present but I don't know where the other 2 were christened.
As for Anna she's on the 1911 census for Newtownards,her first name is wrongly spelt but it is her,on that census she is a "widow" did she know her husband had "married" again? In 1901 she put married even though Thomas was long gone.
It's bit like a soap opera with the twists and turns!!! Yes I got the birth year wrong,sorry

[Elwyn Soutter]

Annie (Anney) is shown on the 1911 census as Church of Ireland. Church of Ireland do keep burial records. However don’t expect too much information from them. You are likely to find something like: "Ann Gunning, aged 74, widow, resided Newtownards". Not much more. The records for a burial post 1911 are likely to still be with the local church in the town.

[sandyjose]

Thanks for your help,I have Annie in the 1911 census just as you've said.Maybe if I contact different Churches in Newtownards they might have burial records,that's if she died there.Any way will give it a try.

[Elwyn Soutter]

The Church of Ireland is the only church that routinely keeps burial records in Ireland.

[sandyjose]

I suddenly thought that Annie could have remarried so I looked for irish marriages and found an Annie Gunning married a John White in 1918.So far I haven't found a death for Annie White but they could have left Ireland.It's a step in the right direction.

[Elwyn Soutter]

found an Annie Gunning married a John White in 1918.So far I haven't found a death for Annie White but they could have left Ireland.

Remember that deaths in Northern Ireland, from 1.1.1922 onwards, are not on-line anywhere. You have to contact GRONI to search for them.

[sandyjose]

Hi You say that deaths in Northern Ireland are not on-line but if you look on Ancestry there are deaths after 1915,but you have to have a subscription to view them which I have.also Family Search has records well into the 20th centuary.It's all to do with when civil registration began.Since I started researching my Irish family there are many more records on-line than before.I know about so many records being destroyed in 1922 but in some cases there are churches that still have some records.Sadly the censuses were destroyed.
I'm sure I'm telling you what you already know.Someone told me that if I want certificates,to get them from Rosscomon as they are cheaper,do you know anything about that?As you live in Co Antrim perhaps you can advise me about where I can find records for the end of the 18th centuary and the beginning of the 19th centuary.I'd be happy to give you my e-mail address then I can explain what I know and what I'm looking for.Hope to hear from you soon,Regards Susan

[sandyjose]

Yes I understand what you are saying,on the 1881 and 1891 censuses for Scotland all the names are spelt correctly but Easter(Esther)is not there.I have looked in Irish records and Scottish ones for a death,nothing.I've thought she could have been adopted/given away but I can't find anyone with her name and birth date anywhere.It's a complete mystery!

[Elwyn Soutter]

Susan,

The information on the Ancestry site describes the collection as deaths in Ireland from 1864 to 1958. However it is misleading. It does not include deaths in Northern Ireland from 1.1.1922 onwards. This is a topic that comes up time and time again and causes a lot of confusion. In my opinion they ought to make it a lot clearer that the NI records are missing. (If you don’t believe me, try finding one. Search for say a Smith death in Belfast 1945 plus or minus 10 years. See how many you find!)

Familysearch has exactly the same set of records as Ancestry. However, if you look at the title of their Irish civil index collection, it says: “An index of Ireland civil registration including 1864-1958 births, 1845-1958 marriages, and 1864-1958 deaths, but excluding index records for Northern Ireland after its creation in 1922.” So at least they are much clearer about not having the NI records.

GRO in NI are planning to put some of the records from 1922 onwards on-line next year but at the moment you cannot access them on-line, even on a pay to view site. (LDS have copied the indexes and these are available on microfilm in a couple of their libraries but that is as far as it goes. For some reason you can’t order those indexes in to your local LDS library. They are only available at certain specified libraries. One of their London libraries has a copy).

The records unavailability on-line has nothing to do with the destruction of records in Ireland in 1922. The birth, death & marriage records were completely unaffected (not being stored in the Four Courts). It’s just that for whatever reason, the authorities in Northern Ireland have not yet got around to putting the records on-line. To access them at the moment you either need to go in person to GRONI in Belfast (£14 fee to search for a day) or e-mail/phone them and ask them to search (for which there is usually a fee). You can phone up and pay over the phone, people do that all the time. They usually post the certificate out the next day, and are very efficient in that respect.

Regarding getting certificates from Roscommon, the position is this: Roscommon has a set of records for all of Ireland up to 31.12.1921, and for the Republic of Ireland from that date forward up to today. GRONI in Belfast has a set of all the records for what is now Northern Ireland, from their start, up to today.

So for records in Northern Ireland prior to 1.1.1922, you have a choice between Roscommon & GRONI, but after that date you have to go to GRONI. GRONI charge £15 for a certificate. They don’t offer a cheap photocopy option. GRO Roscommon charge €20 for a certificate but do offer a photocopy option for €4. So if you are applying for a passport and need a formal cert, you have to pay the full price but if it’s just for genealogy or general interest a photocopy will usually suffice. So for most people the GRO Roscommon €4 option is better value for money. The only caveat is that if the event is for Northern Ireland, then it has to be before 1.1.1922 because Roscommon won’t have it after that date.

To order a photocopy from GRO Roscommon for €4 per certificate, put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). (You can get that information free from Familysearch). Don’t worry about leaving some boxes blank. You don’t need to fill them all in if you have the reference details. http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Tick the relevant box on the form.

Roscommon take about 2 weeks to deal with applications though it can be quicker at quiet times. GRONI generally issue within 1 to 2 days, so they are more efficient, but also more expensive.

Susan, I will send you a pm with my e-mail address and you can tell me what you are looking for in the church records. I’ll see if I can help you.

[sandyjose]

Hi Elwyn,I'm sorry for not being in touch before.I was very ill ending up spending a month in hospital.I'm a lot better now and trying to catch up. I am pretty sure that the Annie Gunning I found that married John White in Newtownards in 1919 was my great gran.Also I found a grave in the Movilla Cemetery for an Annie White who died in 1930.I found that on Billion Graves. There still remains the mystery of the daughter,Easter McCafferty,what happened to her? I tried the couple who were witnesses at Annie and Thomas' wedding,a Martha and James Hagan,to see if they had a child the age Easter would have been.Nothing.I did find that Martha's maiden name was Hollinger,the same as Annie's mother! That's me up to date for now. Susan