Retirement age?

[Waitabit]

Limited I'net access, may need a new modem.
Meanwhile, can anyone tell me at what age a man b 1895 England would usually retire, other than early retirement under health or other circumstances?

Chap was a Railway signaller E.Croydon box from about 1917( a guess), retired to Sussex, died 1964.
Any help appreciated.

[Jan1954]

The National Insurance Act 1946 introduced the British State Pension, which came into effect from 1948, with a retirement age for men of 65. If your chap was born in 1895, all things being equal, he would have retired in 1960.

[malcolm99]

Wendy - this may be of interest. I've also sent a PM.

http://www.
wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/East_Croydon.html

[Waitabit]

Jan, thank you, I haven't been able to get the details from his 'clock' given on retirement, shall ask again in case his payroll no. is on that.


ooh yes Malcolm, thanks.Hadn't seen those before.


I wonder if we are all up to date on mailbox house keeping?

[malcolm99]

I wonder if we are all up to date on mailbox house keeping?

Whoops - I am now!

[Waitabit]

Always ready with the Duster / Vaccuum hey Malcolm?

[malcolm99]

I learned cleaning from visiting the Box. Always spotless it was - and did the brass shine!

(Note it had the, for then, very modern 'short signal levers' rather than the long traditional ones).

[malcolm99]

Well it’s a jolly small world isn’t it? My Dad left the army & started work at East Croydon in February 1947 (he was only 24). Part of his job took him all round the ‘local’ signal boxes looking after the signalling equipment. So when I rang him this afternoon I didn’t say anything to him but just asked if he remembered any of the signalmen from the late 40s and 50s.

Well he ummed and aahed a bit and then said “Well there was George Martin”. George apparently worked in ‘”East Croydon South” box (not to be confused with “South Croydon” which is the next station). There were 2 boxes at East Croydon (‘North’ and ‘South’) and George’s was about 100 yards south of the station going towards Brighton. They didn’t know each other well and only saw each other occasionally but my Dad remembers him as a “a pleasant chap...not fat but plumpish...in his 50s” – which all fits rather nicely with the DOB you gave.

The ‘new’ signal box started operating in May 1955 and this meant the closure of the old North & South boxes. Because they didn’t need all the signalmen from both boxes in order to operate the new one, some of the existing signalmen must have been put to other duties (I don’t think they had ‘early retirement’ in those days!). Also, because the new box was geographically more or less in the same place as the old ‘North’ box, he thinks it’s more than likely that the signalmen from that box would have moved to the new one (because they were already familiar with the complex arrangements in that part of the station layout). Whatever actually happened, my Dad can’t recall George being in the new box.

Now the reason why my Dad particularly remembered George was that, well before the Beatles came to prominence in 1963/64 (and obviously before 1955), your George Martin had mentioned a number of times that his son George was in the ‘music business’. And so, as is the way with these things, when the Beatles’ George Martin became well known, the men at Croydon all thought it was the signalman’s son!

So now you’ll have to track down who George Martin junior was.

Sorry for the essay but this has been such an unexpected coincidence.

[Chris Doran]

Regardless of the 1946 Act, I believe that railwaymen, along with other public sector workers, retired at age 60 — my railwayman granddad, born 1885, retired in 1945. They are certainly moaning now about proposals to up the age to 65!

[Waitabit]

Dad remembers him as a “a pleasant chap...not fat but plumpish...in his 50s” – which all fits rather nicely with the DOB you gave.
This may well have described Uncle George from last photo I have of him in 1932 in Brighton. Sturdier than the little lad in his wedding photo in uniform. 1921.


Now the reason why my Dad particularly remembered George was that, well before the Beatles came to prominence in 1963/64 (and obviously before 1955), your George Martin had mentioned a number of times that his son George was in the ‘music business’
Sadly this is where it goes the way of many 'Martins'. Uncle George's son died due to diptheria 1929, aged 5.
There were many 'Martin' men working the signal boxes, which gave the name of 'the Martin Box' to his particular signalbox. (told of by cousin)

I have him & his Wife Clara on electoral rolls in Cedar rd, Croydon, 1930. Listed as (H.G. Martin) Not known when they moved to Lancing, before or after retirement. His death/probate notice does not mention a wife or being widowed, but I can't seem to find the correct death for his wife, b.1889. A possible in Chichester, maybe in a hospital.
UK Cousins don't remember, they were born in 1940s so would have been quite young. One does remember his Mother visiting Clara in Hospital on a very roundabout trip form Croydon.

I will try to glean their Lancing years from electoral rolls of the 40-50s via a friendly Library staffer in that area.

Thanks you so much Malcolm for your worthy efforts. I'm sorry now that I can't claim the chap you Father remembered. Stirling job from both of you.

[malcolm99]

Regardless of the 1946 Act, I believe that railwaymen, along with other public sector workers, retired at age 60 — my railwayman granddad, born 1885, retired in 1945. They are certainly moaning now about proposals to up the age to 65!

I wouldn’t like any one to get the impression that this was true. The vast majority of people working in nationalised industries and local government had to work until they were 65 in order to get the state pension. This may not have applied to all of the Civil Service but they were a small minority in terms of the working population.

Railway companies were private companies and not in the public sector until they were nationalised in January 1948.

[Peter Goodey]

The vast majority of people working in nationalised industries and local government had to work until they were 65 in order to get the state pension.

Quite so. People who worked for nationalised industries were not civil servants.