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arthurk
15-02-2013, 5:23 PM
While going through some photos from a recently-deceased relative I found a few copies of one showing what I have now discovered is Luxulyan Church. Clearly visible in the foreground is the gravestone of William Henry Knight Trevail, who died at Trethurgy in 1939.

The photos are black-and-white and small (just over 3" x 2"), and I think they may have been taken during a holiday in Cornwall, perhaps around the 1950s. I have no known family connection to William Trevail, so would be happy to pass these on to anyone who does.

If that sounds like you, please contact me by email or private message and briefly describe your connection, and I'd be happy to send you a copy.

Arthur

brockdj
09-06-2017, 3:43 AM
Arthur, did you ever get any reply to this query? I know who this man is. He was born in 1862 in Luxylyan. My husband is descended from his mother's sister and I would be interested in knowing what happened to his mother, Ruhamah Trevail. She was born 1840 but I have no record of her after 1871.

arthurk
09-06-2017, 10:19 AM
Hi - welcome to the forum, and thanks for your interest.

You're the first person to contact me about this, and I'd be very happy to let you have a copy of the photo. Unfortunately, though, since it's over 4 years since my initial post and I've moved house in the meantime, it might take me a while to find it, but I'll have a go....

I can't help with William's mother, I'm afraid. I seem to remember that the details on the stone helped me to identify the church, but I didn't do any further research into the family. And as far as I know, it was pure chance that the stone was included in the photo, rather than there being any connection with the rather distant branch of the family that it came to me from.

Arthur

arthurk
09-06-2017, 3:14 PM
Unfortunately, though, since it's over 4 years since my initial post and I've moved house in the meantime, it might take me a while to find it, but I'll have a go....

Well, I've had a look in what seemed the most likely places and unfortunately drawn a blank. As the last move was meant to be only temporary and there might be another one in the not too distant future, some things are still packed up and inaccessible, so it might be lurking somewhere mixed up with other things.

On the other hand, I can't rule out the possibility that since it wasn't my family, and no-one had contacted me about it, I might have decided not to keep it.

Sorry I can't help you now, but if it turns up in the future I'll let you know.

brockdj
09-06-2017, 10:10 PM
Well, I've had a look in what seemed the most likely places and unfortunately drawn a blank. As the last move was meant to be only temporary and there might be another one in the not too distant future, some things are still packed up and inaccessible, so it might be lurking somewhere mixed up with other things.

On the other hand, I can't rule out the possibility that since it wasn't my family, and no-one had contacted me about it, I might have decided not to keep it.

Sorry I can't help you now, but if it turns up in the future I'll let you know.

Not to worry, Arthur. I've actually visited Luxulyan churchyard (about 8 years ago) and I think I saw the stone for William. The mystery of his mother is what really interested me. Thanks anyway - Jan

arthurk
10-06-2017, 11:01 AM
Not to worry, Arthur. I've actually visited Luxulyan churchyard (about 8 years ago) and I think I saw the stone for William. The mystery of his mother is what really interested me. Thanks anyway - Jan
OK, thanks for that, but if the photo ever does turn up I'll try to remember to let you know.


Arthur, did you ever get any reply to this query? I know who this man is. He was born in 1862 in Luxylyan. My husband is descended from his mother's sister and I would be interested in knowing what happened to his mother, Ruhamah Trevail. She was born 1840 but I have no record of her after 1871.
Anyway, this does seem a bit of a puzzle, so I've done a bit of looking into it. Possibly covering ground you've already looked at, but here it is anyway:

I haven't seen any original register images, but I've found the name Ruhamah in baptism transcripts (6 Mar 1863) at FamilySearch and Cornwall OPC. I haven't found it anywhere else, which made me wonder if it was a mistranscription.

Looking for everyone with surname Trevail in the 1861 census for Luxulyan, the most likely seemed to me to be Susannah: there's just one, a widow aged 47 at Higher Menedew Farm House (RG9/1533 fo4 p1). (Note the daughter Jane aged 10.) Higher Menedew here presumably isn't too far from Lower Menadew as given in the OPC baptism transcript. However, the age is obviously not consistent with what you have.

Going on to 1871, the same Susanna(h) appears to be in Liskeard with her married daughter Jane Dyer aged 20 (RG10/2239 fo46 p24). I didn't see a likely William Trevail, but I wonder if he might be the "William U Knight" (with misreading of middle initial?) in Menheniot as son of Joseph H Knight (RG10/2236 fo5 p1). William's birth registration has no mother's maiden name given, which could indicate illegitimacy, and the use of Knight as one of his forenames strongly suggests to me that this was his father's surname. So perhaps he lived with his father rather than his mother?

Finally, there's a death registration for Susanna Trevail in the Liskeard district in Jun qtr 1880 (age 65), and the OPC has a matching burial in Luxulyan on 28 Apr 1880 (age 65, residence Liskeard).

This all sort of fits together, but it depends on there being a misreading in the baptism register, so if you have anything indicating that Ruhamah is correct, it all falls apart. Also, as I mentioned, the age is totally inconsistent with what you have, and it would be interesting to know where that comes from in case that leads to anything else.

arthurk
10-06-2017, 12:31 PM
I didn't see a likely William Trevail, but I wonder if he might be the "William U Knight" (with misreading of middle initial?) in Menheniot as son of Joseph H Knight (RG10/2236 fo5 p1).
Sorry, I think I've misled you with this one. This William's age is a bit out, and there's a William Udy Knight birth registration in 1864 which fits far better than the Knight/Trevail one.

You mentioned not having anything on William's mother after 1871 - if she's not the one I've found in Liskeard in 1871, where do you have her? And do you know where William was?

helachau
10-06-2017, 1:30 PM
You can find Rumhah, age 1, on the '41 Census.
Also in the household - Christinia Knight.

Rhumhah's birth is a real mystery - struggling to say the least.

arthurk
10-06-2017, 3:34 PM
OK, thanks for that. Got her in 1851 as well now (HO107/1904 fo178 p6) with father John, whose wife Christiana looks suspiciously like the one in 1841. Ancestry have her as Rheumah T, but it looks more like Rhumah T to me, plus another initial inserted above - possibly K (for Knight?) - the next two siblings have a K as well.

arthurk
10-06-2017, 3:50 PM
Serious backtracking here:

In 1861 John & Christiana are at Lower Menedue Farm House - RG9/1533 fo20 p14
I think I have William's mother as Rumoth Trevail, a servant aged 21 at another farm - RG9/1533 fo14 p1

arthurk
10-06-2017, 4:10 PM
Is William down as Henry in 1871, grandson aged 8 with John & Christiana? - RG10/2246 District 2 p10-11 (No folio numbers in this piece)

brockdj
11-06-2017, 7:09 AM
Serious backtracking here:

In 1861 John & Christiana are at Lower Menedue Farm House - RG9/1533 fo20 p14
I think I have William's mother as Rumoth Trevail, a servant aged 21 at another farm - RG9/1533 fo14 p1

You've certainly got your teeth into this, Arthur!
I did a lot of research into Ruhamah about 10 years ago. Ruhamah is, by the way, a name from the Old Testament and I think all the variations in censuses etc are just misspellings.
I was researching the Trevail family at the time as my husband is descended from Ruhamah's sister, Miriam. John Trevail born 1804 and Christiana were Ruhamah's parents but they didn't marry until 1847, seven years after Ruhamah was born.

I wrote a narrative about this interesting family. Is there any way I can attach a part of that to this thread. It would explain the family situation more succinctly.

brockdj
11-06-2017, 7:19 AM
But our ancestor, the John Trevail of the village of Lower Menadue, on the Bugle side of Luxulyan, was born in 1804, lived well into his 80s and was a farmer, possibly of about 21 acres. John had a total of 8 children, by two different women, but his marital
arrangements were unusual, to say the least. He was quite possibly the black sheep of his family.
John
had a ‘liaison’ with a Mary Ann Yelland Varcoe. Banns for the marriage of Mary Ann and John were read in Luxulyan Church during 1836, but no marriage took place. A son, James Varcoe Trevail, was born to John and Mary Ann in 1836 and a second son, Joseph, in 1838. For some reason Mary Ann then left Luxulyan taking her youngest son, Joseph, with her. Sometime prior to 1840 Christiana Knight, twelve years John’s junior, came into the household at Lower Menadue Farm. She was initially a servant and perhaps a carer for young James. She was also possibly a young female relative of John’s mother, Elizabeth Knight. Over the next 11 years John and Christiana became the parents of six more children.

Ruhamah Knight Trevail born 1840
Reuben Knight Trevail born 1842
Miriam Trevail Knight born 1844
Jenifer Trevail born 1849
Eleanor Trevail born 1850
Elizabeth Trevail born 1851

On 3 August 1845 there was a ‘job lot’ baptism in Luxulyan Church of four of John’s children. The church baptism records clarify the children’s mothers. James’ mother is named as ‘Mary Ann Varcoe – spinster’ and the mother of Ruhamah, Reuben and Miriam is ‘Christiana Knight – spinster’. John acknowledged paternity of all of these children. In 1847 the banns for the marriage of John and Christiana were read and they married on 19th May 1847, thereby making the youngest three children the only legitimate children of John Trevail.

All the children of John and Christiana born after their marriage in 1847 have Trevail very definitely as their surname. Some of the earlier ones seem to be legally Knights but always referred to as Trevails, but the two names seem to swop positions regularly!

John and Christiana are both buried at Luxulyan. Christiana died in 1882 aged 66 and John died 11 years later aged 89. He lived the last few years of his life with his daughter Jenifer and her family, who had moved into Lower Menadue Farm.


Ruhamah born 1840

Ruhamah went into service but had an illegitimate son, William Henry Knight, on 26th June 1862. The boy’s father is not named on his birth certificate. As an eight year old this boy lived with his grandparents, Christiana and John, while his mother continued to be in service. Later, while employed as a china clay labourer, he boarded with his mother’s sister, Jenifer, her husband John Folley and their growing young family. There is no record of Ruhamah after the 1871 census. Did she marry, emigrate like her half-brother, die, change her name? Who knows?

Ruhamah’s name comes from the Old Testament. Ruhamah was the daughter of Hosea and Gomer – a woman who ‘played the harlot’ and whose children were ‘the children of whoredoms’. Perhaps it was a hard name to live with.

Ruhamah’s son, known as Henry Trevail, married a girl called Mary and by 1891 was living with her and their three year old son, John, in Thistle Park Cottages, Cattedown, Plymouth. Henry was working as a gas stoker, presumably at the Coxside Gas Works, with his cousin, Tom Trevail. He died in 1939 and is buried in Luxulyan Churchyard.

arthurk
11-06-2017, 10:45 AM
Hi Jan - thanks for posting all of that. Given the amount you've already done on this, I doubt I'm going to be able to get any further than you have.

I did have another look at the OPC site, though (before I read your post), and saw that they had Ruhamah's baptism with the name spelled Ramoth - another variant to throw into the mix?

I still haven't found her in the 1871 census - do you have the details/reference, please?

helachau
11-06-2017, 12:16 PM
1871 Census - ref RG10 2256 90 5 (with the Lander family)

Re. the 1881 Census have been looking at RG11 2292 95 6

Name - R? T,; age -41, single, daughter of farmer; born - N/K"

John Trevail is described as a "Retired farmer" in his Census entry.

1891 - RG12 1816 160 21

arthurk
11-06-2017, 1:15 PM
Thanks, helachau. And you could well be on to something with those 1881 and 1891 entries - they certainly fit with what is known, though there could of course be others that they match as well.

helachau
11-06-2017, 1:22 PM
Couldn't spot an "R T" or similar in 1901 and 1911.

There was an "E T" in 1891 and 1901, born 1844, but this was an Elfrida Trevail (full names in the 1911).

"R T" certainly a possibility.

arthurk
11-06-2017, 3:31 PM
The institution records appear to be at Cornwall Record Office. Some of them are at Ancestry, but not for all years, and I didn't spot her there.

helachau
11-06-2017, 4:11 PM
I checked for the Cornwall Record's Office catalogue (had spotted Ancestry covered 1870-75 admissions only - though I don't subscribe)) but the link I was given via google kept leading me to the National Archives - which in turn confirmed the records were with the Cornwall Records Office.

brockdj
11-06-2017, 11:32 PM
Yes, you've found her in 1871....sometimes called Ruama, sometimes Ruanna. A servant for the family of Christopher Lander in Churchtown, St Wenn, St Columb Major, Cornwall. I found her here about 10 years ago but then drew a blank. No death listing, no marriage listing. Her half-brother James Varcoe Trevail had emigrated to USA by 1871 - his wife and young family following a little later, so I wondered whether she went too, but could find no trace.

brockdj
12-06-2017, 12:17 AM
When Ruhamah was born her parents were not married so her official surname is Knight.....though she often used Trevail.

brockdj
12-06-2017, 8:40 PM
When Ruhamah was born her parents were not married so her official surname is Knight.....though she often used Trevail.
I feel the Bodmin Lunatic Asylum is quite a possibility. Is there any way of getting more information on inmates?
The 1891 census entry seems very vague.

arthurk
13-06-2017, 10:49 AM
I feel the Bodmin Lunatic Asylum is quite a possibility. Is there any way of getting more information on inmates?
The 1891 census entry seems very vague.

Probably. The records are at Cornwall Record Office - see their description at
http://www.
cornwall.gov.uk/community-and-living/records-archives-and-cornish-studies/cornwall-record-office/cornwall-record-office-collections/voluntary-organisations/#Hospitals

The one you want is listed as "St Lawrence's Hospital (formerly County Asylum)", and it gives some reference numbers to use in the online catalogue at
http://
crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl

HC1 was the reference with most results (over 500) but you can restrict that by putting a word such as Admission in the AnyText box.

Once you've identified the likely document(s) it will be a case of either asking the record office staff to look for an entry and copy it, or finding someone who could visit and do it on your behalf.

Hospital records in the UK usually have a closure period of 75 or 100 years, but this shouldn't apply here.

brockdj
17-06-2017, 3:43 AM
Thank you arthurk and helachau. The offices you suggested have been as helpful as they could be. Nothing can be confirmed re the RTs in the 1818 and 1891 censuses being Ruhamah Trevail, but I have a hunch you have put your finger on it. I am still looking for a death or burial record for Ruhamah.