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lynnelay
31-01-2013, 6:22 PM
My 3x Great Grand mother, Charlotte FLETCHER (nee SMITH) died in 1856 at 5, St John's Place Glasgow. The death reg says it is off **** John Street. (Maybe East). I cannot find any road of this name and as I am visiting Glasgow would like to know where it was.
In the 1851 census she lived at 7 Calton Entry and the rest of her family where the 10 years later. Was 5 St John's place a hospital?? or a relative ?? Perhaps some one could look it up in a census (51 or 61) for me.

Her husband remarried but had no more Children that I can find. He died 1864 22nd October at 9 Calton Entry. I have the registration document, but would like some idea of where he might be buried. His wife was buried in Glasgow Necropolis.

Thanks in anticipation Lynne

pattenwalsh
31-01-2013, 6:37 PM
For Glasgow street names that have gone have a look here glasgowguide.co.uk/info-streetschanged3.html
Put the usual www in front

terrysfamily
31-01-2013, 6:41 PM
Read what it says here, it may give you some Idea

http://www.
oldglasgowpubs.co.uk/williamdonnelly.html

lynnelay
03-02-2013, 5:44 PM
There is another road I can't find.......... Craignestock St Terry's family post mentioned something similar, but I can't find it on current maps. The link from Pattern walsh does not mention it either. Please help.

terrysfamily
03-02-2013, 6:12 PM
Here is a picture of the pipe factory on Craignestock Street

http://www.
scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=187993

Go to http://gridreferencefinder.com/gmap.php#

and put in

Latitude 55.851523N
Longitude 4.232466W

Select Satellite view and zoom in, it seems to be a side road that only partially exists now.

malcolm99
03-02-2013, 6:18 PM
There is a map showing the location of Calton / Black Fauld here:

http://parkheadhistory.
com/?page_id=2307

Scroll down the page a bit and there's a photo of Calton Entry.

malcolm99
03-02-2013, 6:25 PM
Here is a picture of the pipe factory on Craignestock Street....



Lowering the tone somewhat, put Craignestock in the "Quick Search" box on this page and you'll see a fine photo of "The public urinal in Craignestock Street". Click on the photo to enlarge it (honestly it's actually a very good photo of the street).

http://www.
theglasgowstory.com/index.php

Later: Put CALTON in the Quick Search box of the same page and there are quite a number of photos relating to Calton.

terrysfamily
03-02-2013, 6:35 PM
ha. I knew there was a reason they needed a pipe factory. It's for all those urinals |shocked|

malcolm99
03-02-2013, 9:05 PM
I’ve found a map.

Go to>
http://maps.
nls.uk/towns/detail.cfm?id=2660

Craignestock Street

1. Click on the map image

2. Use the + sign to zoom in until you can easily see GLASGOW GREEN on the north side of the Clyde just to the right of the city centre.

3. Zoom in on the “Glasgow” bit of “Glasgow Green” and you’ll see Monteith Row

4. At the bottom of Monteith Row you’ll see Binnie Place. Craignestock Street is just to the right of where it says “Ind. Ch.” (it’s between Green Street and Tobago Street).

N.B. Be patient - a very sharp image of the map will appear but it takes a few seconds

malcolm99
03-02-2013, 9:44 PM
Calton Entry

1. On the same map go to Monteith Row again but go the other way up (north west) to the junction with St Mungo Street.

2. Go to Gallowgate at the end of St Mungo Street

3. Turn right into Gallowgate and the 1st street on the right is Kent Street. The next ‘street’ is unnamed but is clearly shown as a crescent road running down into Moncur Street. That is Calton Entry.

lynnelay
04-02-2013, 5:50 PM
Only had time to look at the maps so far. What wonderful instructions. Thanks I have found both streets. Any ideas on St John's Place . I think it was off East John St near Whitevale. There in 1851 seems to have gone by 1861. Thanks again.

malcolm99
04-02-2013, 6:07 PM
Hello lynnelay

Well there are some 1857-58 maps but each one covers such a small area that it's very difficult to find a particular street if you're not quite sure where it's near. I had a go last night but had to give up - but I'll see if I can find Whitevale and have a butchers in that area.

malcolm99
04-02-2013, 6:31 PM
Got it! - give me half an hour and I'll be back to you.

malcolm99
04-02-2013, 6:34 PM
Look at this>

http://maps.
nls.uk/townplans/view/?sid=74416303&mid=glasgow_1_northeast#sid=74416303&mid=glasgow_1_northeast&zoom=5&lat=5806&lon=7682&layers=BT

Does it show St John's church and St John's Place? If not I'll do something different

malcolm99
04-02-2013, 6:56 PM
So you remember this


Calton Entry
1. On the same map go to Monteith Row again but go the other way up (north west) to the junction with St Mungo Street.
2. Go to Gallowgate at the end of St Mungo Street
3. Turn right into Gallowgate and the 1st street on the right is Kent Street. The next ‘street’ is unnamed but is clearly shown as a crescent road running down into Moncur Street. That is Calton Entry.

1. Just get as far as Kent Street. Then carry on down Gallowgate a wee bit and on the left there is McFarlane Street.
2. At the other end of McFarlane Street is St John’s Church. St John’s Place is the blank space on the left of the church as we look at it.

Going back to the 1857 map - http://
tinyurl.com/ae52psn - St John’s Church is towards the top of the map where the building line stops.

Calton Entry is shown at the bottom of the map not far from the left hand corner.

malcolm99
04-02-2013, 7:04 PM
As it’s handy....

The rest of Calton Entry is on this 1857 map. In the top Left Hand corner running left to right are South St Mungo Street, Kent Street and then the rest of Calton Entry (by the Timber Yard).

See: http://
tinyurl.com/ax9ztqf

malcolm99
04-02-2013, 7:22 PM
Afterthought....


My 3x Great Grand mother, Charlotte FLETCHER (nee SMITH) died in 1856 at 5, St John's Place Glasgow. The death reg says it is off **** John Street. (Maybe East).

I know this St John’s Place does not appear to be "off **** John Street. (Maybe East)” but I think it could be the right place as it’s so close to Craignestock Street and Calton Entry. I suspect the Mitchell Library could help you with this if you wanted to follow it up.

lynnelay
05-02-2013, 6:10 PM
Thank you! Thankyou! Thank you! that is much better place for her to be closer to family and friends. Do we know if St John's Church is still there?? or any photos of the area. Thanks again.

malcolm99
05-02-2013, 7:17 PM
Do we know if St John's Church is still there?? or any photos of the area.

St John's Church is long gone. Most of the area was redeveloped in the 19th Century and it looks as though St John's went then. I think I've only come across 1 reference to it and that was about its minister in 1823.

The Mitchell Library is the place to ask but if you put Calton into the search box on this page you'll get some old-ish pictures of the area (but not contemporaneous with your original enquiry).

http://www.
mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/index.php?a=district

lynnelay
09-02-2013, 5:35 PM
Hi, It's me again. Is it possible for you to find Double Dykes in Glasgow. Hugh was there in 1812 to 1818. In 1807 he was in Gibson St. I have this info from the Post Office Directories.
Thanks in anticipation Lynne

malcolm99
09-02-2013, 8:45 PM
Hello Lynne

If I had a computer that wanted to work properly I might be able to help you faster. As it is things are a bit slow here but I have discovered that your St John's Church was still standing in 1892.

I'll keep looking when and if that bearded man in a hot air balloon allows me to....

malcolm99
09-02-2013, 9:09 PM
As it’s handy....

The rest of Calton Entry is on this 1857 map. In the top Left Hand corner running left to right are South St Mungo Street, Kent Street and then the rest of Calton Entry (by the Timber Yard).

See: http://
tinyurl.com/ax9ztqf

I can't find a reference to Double Dykes but Gibson Street is on this same map. It's the next street down from Calton Entry and runs from Cross Gibson Street into Gallowgate.

Coromandel
09-02-2013, 9:55 PM
'In 1793, when an Act of Parliament was obtained for building Hutchesontown Bridge, the Magistrates were empowered to sell or feu a stripe of ground in the Laigh Green, on each side of the continuation of the Salt-market-street, and also a stripe of the Calton Green, adjoining the road formerly known by the name of the Double Dykes road, which has since been increased in width from the Green, and made into a spacious street, and convenient approach to the City.'

From 'The Rise and Progress of the City of Glasgow...' by James Cleland (published 1820; available on Google Books).

Though I have been looking at some old maps that hasn't helped me identify where Double Dykes was or what it became.:(

malcolm99
09-02-2013, 10:08 PM
Is it possible for you to find Double Dykes in Glasgow. Hugh was there in 1812 to 1818. I have this info from the Post Office Directories.


I can't see a reference to Double Dykes in the couple of directories I've checked. It would help if you could give a year & page reference? And who is Hugh?

Later - it's OK, I've now found a reference to Hugh in Double dykes.

malcolm99
09-02-2013, 11:13 PM
'In 1793, when an Act of Parliament was obtained for building Hutchesontown Bridge, the Magistrates were empowered to sell or feu a stripe of ground in the Laigh Green, on each side of the continuation of the Salt-market-street, and also a stripe of the Calton Green, adjoining the road formerly known by the name of the Double Dykes road, which has since been increased in width from the Green, and made into a spacious street, and convenient approach to the City.'

From 'The Rise and Progress of the City of Glasgow...' by James Cleland (published 1820; available on Google Books).

Though I have been looking at some old maps that hasn't helped me identify where Double Dykes was or what it became.:(

Sorry Coromandel I completely missed your posting. I had a feeling that it must be near the river and had been knocked down when London Street was built. Your description fits in with this.

I haven't looked at this area very much but I've just seen that there's a Greendyke Street between St Andrew's Square and what I suppose is the Park. It needs looking at more closely.

http://maps.nls.
uk/townplans/view/?sid=74416307&mid=glasgow_1_centre#sid=74416307&mid=glasgow_1_centre&zoom=4&lat=8381.72718&lon=10710.72772&layers=BT

lynnelay
10-02-2013, 3:03 AM
Hugh Fletcher b c 1780 on the Isle of Mull. He married Janet McGregor in 1801 in Glasgow in a gaelic speaking church. He was my great x4 grandfather. All called either Hugh or Alexander.
Post Office directories of 1812 to 1818 have him being a wood turner of Double Dykes, before moving to Calton Entry. The 1818 one says Double dykes Calton. In 1824 he was at Calton Entry where he stayed until his death in 1865.
In 1807 he was in Gibson St, which from the map link you sent me , using 1812 map
http://maps.
nls.uk/joins/view/?rsid=74400939&sid=74400943&mid=788&pdesc=SouthCentre section#rsid=74400939&sid=74400943&mid=788&pdesc=South%20Centre%20section&zoom=4&lat=9501&lon=7527.5&layers=BT
top right is nearly in the country side. Calton Entry and gibson st both on it. I can't imagine Double dykes would be far away.
Thanks for all your help
lynne

lynnelay
10-02-2013, 3:18 AM
Insomnia has hit. There is a road called Green Dyke that edges the "park" at the bottom of the 1812 map. Or at least it is called Green dyke on current maps. (A to Z) Not named on 1812 map- perhaps that was it because Coromandel's post said it was formerly known as DD and has been increased from the green.

malcolm99
10-02-2013, 8:01 AM
I suspect the closest we’re going to get To Double Dykes based on Coromandel’s #23 is that it’s somewhere to the south of Saltmarket as shown on this 1807 map:

http://
tinyurl.com/beopj3b

The Wooden Bridge is Nicholson’s 1803 Hutchesontown Bridge and there’s an 1806 picture of it here:

http://www.
theglasgowstory.com/image.php?inum=TGSE00518

The extract from Cleland’s book that Coromandel found gives a graphic description of the area as it was around the time when High Fletcher was living there:

http://
tinyurl.com/atlb8az

lynnelay
10-02-2013, 10:26 AM
This photo shows St John's Church, demolished 1962. The photographer must have stood with his back to Calton Entry.

Thanks for the link.
http://www.theglasgowstory.com/image.php?inum=TGSE01331

malcolm99
10-02-2013, 10:48 AM
That's a good find. That pram looks newish - it'd be fascinating to know if there was a baby in it - it wouldn't surprise me if there was!

So the space to the left of this drawing is St John's Place and the building on the right would appear to be the infantry barracks>

http://tinyurl.com/az3t2ve

malcolm99
10-02-2013, 10:58 AM
Don't worry - I got quite excited about all the information I found about DD before I discovered mine was in Perth!

Whoops - your post has disappeared (I won't tell anyone :smile5:).

Coromandel
10-02-2013, 11:00 AM
I suspect the closest we’re going to get To Double Dykes based on Coromandel’s #23 is that it’s somewhere to the south of Saltmarket as shown on this 1807 map . . .

I'm sure you're right, Malcolm, that it's got to be around there somewhere. How frustrating that it isn't labelled on any maps and doesn't seem to be used much except in the directories.

There are many fascinating snippets about the history of the Calton Green area in Vol. III of 'Glasgow Past and Present', by 'Senex' (Robert Reid). No specific mention of Double Dykes as far as I can tell, but it might help to build up a picture of the area. Here, for example, is a quotation from a 'published report of Dr. Cleland on the intended city improvements, of date 1813':

http://
archive.org/stream/glasgowpastprese03robe#page/152/mode/2up

The comment on that same page about 'when Greendyke Street came to be widened' encourages me to think that Double Dykes was in this same area.

In the same volume there's a reproduction of a 1760 plan of 'the Low Green of Glasgow':

http://
archive.org/stream/glasgowpastprese03robe#page/n25/mode/2up

If, like me, you haven't mastered the online viewer on the Internet Archive site, you can download a PDF version instead:

http://
ia700304.us.archive.org/9/items/glasgowpastprese03robe/glasgowpastprese03robe.pdf

lynnelay
10-02-2013, 11:08 AM
How lucky am I to find 2 such helpful people

malcolm99
10-02-2013, 11:26 AM
I'm sure you're right, Malcolm, that it's got to be around there somewhere. How frustrating that it isn't labelled on any maps and doesn't seem to be used much except in the directories.....

Yes I saw that 1760 plan and got rather excited before being disappointed. There is another plan (hand drawn) which is similar and shows lots of 'waste ground' (it’s similar to this one>

http://www.theglasgowstory.
com/image.php?inum=TGSA05245&t=2&urltp=searchq.php%3Fqsearch%3Dglasgow+green%26amp% 3Bstart%3D40%26amp%3Bend%3D60%26amp%3Bft%3D144%26a mp%3Bl%3Dy

– but I can’t find the URL at the moment.

What frustrates me is this restrictive Athens login thingy (which I used to rail about at national level) which denies access to this map which could be interesting.


http://www.scran.
ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-507-205-C&scache=1zsop3d701&searchdb=scran

- but I think we’ve done not too badly considering….

P.S. I’m fine with IA & I think the page turning facility in the “Read Online” format is brilliant! – thanks anyway.

malcolm99
10-02-2013, 11:54 AM
What frustrates me is this restrictive Athens login thingy (which I used to rail about at national level) which denies access to this map which could be interesting.


http://www.scran.
ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-507-205-C&scache=1zsop3d701&searchdb=scran

- but I think we’ve done not too badly considering….



Well - all power to the National Library of Scotland! I don't know how I missed it before but I've just found the 1792 map>

http://maps.nls.
uk/military/view/?id=192#id=192&zoom=5&lat=3089&lon=4032&layers=BT

Needless to say it doesn't really help very much!

Coromandel
10-02-2013, 12:26 PM
That was a good find, Malcolm.:thumbsup:

I wouldn't have thought of looking at the military maps.

lynnelay
10-02-2013, 3:08 PM
It shows Calton Entry (not named, but you can tell by the shape. It must be an old thoroughfare

jimr2b
30-12-2013, 4:58 AM
Hello, you may be directly connected to my Fletcher family here. you have not given the name of Charlotte's husband who is obviously a Fletcher, but all my Fletchers come from Calton Entry and Craigenestock Street (and Place). It is a while since you posted but I hope you feel there could be a connection. I would be happy to swap info. on this.

lynnelay
30-12-2013, 2:49 PM
Hi jimr2b, My family are Hugh b1806 and Charlotte b 1808 Fletcher of Carlton Entry. Hugh was a wood turner. I am sure there will be a connection. James, Hugh's brother, lived in Craignestock St and most seemed to have Hugh and Alexander as first names. I have traced this family back to Mull in 1800 when Ewan (Hugh) b c 1780 left to live in Glasgow. Hugh B 1806 is my great x 3 grandfather. please tell me if we are linked then we can discuss further.
Regards Lynne

jimr2b
31-12-2013, 9:44 AM
Hello again lynnelay, yes, it loks like we are looking at the same family here. Hugh's brother James Married Jane Christie and had at least four children, one of who was Helen stuart Fletcher. (b. 29/02/1840) who went on to marry John Falconer Riddell in 1863. This is my direct line. My earliest detail on Hugh Fletcher came from an old bible fly-leaf of my grandmother, who wrote the whole line up to and including my father. I have found a lot of detail since though and I have a lot of certificates on my computer which I would be happy to let you have if I have ones you would like. i have Hugh Fletcher (sen.) marrying Janet Mc Grigor (from Morven) in 1801, they had at least 11 children.
If you want to go into this in depth, I will give you my e-mail; address, then I can post Certs.

regards to you (and a happy New Year as well)

Jim

lynnelay
01-01-2014, 7:01 PM
I've sent you a pm with my email address. Thanks to the other posters wou made this post noticable
Lynne

lynnelay
05-01-2014, 10:02 AM
Right!! First part of my list of certificates re Fletcher family.
Births
* Hugh Fletcher b 1806. Father Hugh (Ewan) Fletcher; mother Janet McGrigor ; 11/06/1806 in Glasgow.
* Lilias Anderson b 24/03/1771 Father James Anderson; mother Lilias Anderson (Miller) St Ninians Stirling. This is Charlotte Smiths mother.
* Charlotte Smith b 23/02/1808 Father Alexander Smith; mother Lilias Anderson. Lambert Stirling.
* Margaret Dougans 1/10/1832 father Robert Dougans ; mother Ann McNair; Strathblane
* Alexander Fletcher 17/March 1858 father Alexander Fletcher; mother margaret Dougans.

All of these are copies of the register downloaded from Scotlands People.
Hop ethese are of help to you. Marriages and deaths will follow later.
Lynne